Paper Is Out, Cellphones Are In [Telecom]

Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but I think society is headed in that direction in 10-20 years. It won't be 'mandatory', but in order to function--get a job, cash their paycheck, travel--one will need such implanted identifier chips.

They give them to pets now to track them down if lost. I wonder if parents will want them for their kids in case their kid gets lost or 'abducted'. I wonder if the military will require them for soldiers. I wonder if the criminal justice world will require them for convicts (they have ankle bracelets now). They'll start with the predators (no will object to that), but expand it to all other offenders.

Newsweek confirmed that former Gov Spitzer was caught as a result of anti-terrorism Patriot Act laws passed after 9/11. I'm not sure how a high-priced hooker is a terrorist or that patronizing same makes one not "Patriotic". Newsweek said prosecutors nationwide use Patriot Act laws for routine law enforcement.

Unfortunately, while the news media is properly reporting the facts, it doesn't seem people are concerned about the loss of privacy. Indeed, they seem to applaud it feeling the intrusions make them more secure.

The old Bell System used to proclaim that the privacy of conversations was sacrosanct. I guess no more.

[public replies, please]

And how long before they begin to penalize those who don't use it? The penalty for paying cash instead of using a transponder on the Illinois tollway is 100% of the toll. Yep. Cash customers pay double.

- Ron

Actually, it was as a result of a snoop law that considerably predates

9/11 (the "Bank Secrecy Act of 1970", another of those laws whose title conceals its contents). Snooping on citizens has been accelerating for a long time, pretty much keeping pace with technological ability to do it in a cost-effective way.

When I was a kid, they used to tell me that the USSR was an awful place because the government listened to your phone calls, you had to show your papers to the police to travel, and you couldn't get a job without government approval. But it seems like maybe they were just too far ahead of their time. I suspect their collapse was due to being overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of index cards and file folders needed to keep the surveillance records.

Dave

Well we will not have to worry about that, just building larger data storage centers.

That's a bit of a strawman. Cash customers cause lines at toll booths and require a lot more service than customers that use transponders.

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***** Moderator's Note *****

I'll disagree: it's not a strawman when the government is involved.

There's a funny thing about dollar bills: they all look the same, and there's a reason for that. One of the important things about a democracy is that the citizens have to feel that the government treats everyone the same when it comes to getting access to government services, and toll roads are no exception.

I don't think governments should justify charging more to those who deal in cash: after all, the notes still say "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private". There are some situations where it's not a good idea to give discounts, and tollgates are one of them. I have a transponder on my car, and I get past the gate faster because of it, and that is enough to justify the cost to me: but the guy who gets paid in cash shouldn't have to pay more because he doesn't have a credit card.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

(Please put [Telecom] at the end of the subject line of your post, or I may never see it. Thanks!)

Some tollways in Houston (and maybe other places) are transponder-only.

Strawman? Not at all. In fact you make my point. The paper boarding passes use up paper, ink, and manpower to refill the machines dispensing them. Its only a matter of time before the airlines start charging for that. They're already doing it for paper tickets.

Whether we like it or not, the reality of life today is that many transactions do require a check, perhaps a certified check, or credit card; cash is not accepted. Further, even when cash is accepted, it may be a narrow range of denominations, e.g. no bills larger than a $20 and no pennies.

Recently, some NJ school children paid for their school lunch using al pennies. It was a protest about their reduced lunch period. The kids were punished for being disruptive. Some people attempt to pay their local or federal taxes in all pennies and it's refused.

Transponders save time and are in effect a volume discount. Our toll bridge used tokens before the transponder. The post office for years gives First Class volume mailers a discount if they pre-sort and address a certain way per automation standards, the more they comply the bigger the discount.

I'm pretty sure you can still get a transponder by paying cash. In all cases you are paying your tolls in advance.

The tracking issue is totally separate. All states will share with the cops. _Some_ states will NOT share with civil courts in things like divorce cases. This was discussed in the roads newsgroup and some people felt pretty passionately that civil courts should have the right to those records. I don't agree.

In my opinion, issues of modern technological privacy are very relevant to this newsgroup.

Easy and cheap telecommunications has radically impacted privacy. That is, there was personal information that was always collected about us, but it would lay buried in a file cabinet and hard to access, especially by remote parties. Today, that information is (1) easily accessible by cheap powerful online computers and (2) those computers are accessible remotely, sometimes legally, sometimes illegally.

It was just reported how nosey employees at the State Dept were snooping around private passport files of politicians, and nosey hospital employees were snooping around medical records of celebrities.

I'm sorry, but it bothers me that someone 1,000 miles away can access personal information about it at my county's office instead of making a personal visit to the office. To me, that is a radical change. (Not everyone agrees and some feel strongly they have every right to that info, as discussed on the roads newsgroup.)

I just want to point out that purchasing volume discounts usually involves tying up money. If you buy a multi-ride commutation train ticket instead of a one-way ticket, you will pay less per trip but will have to lay out more money up front. The more rides you buy the more you pay (e.g. monthly vs. weekly).

Make it even simpler than that.

When I recently flew to NC I booked the tickets online using my credit card. When I got to the check in section, it asked for the credit card to verify my identity.

Really don't need to do that. Hell, most drivers licenses now have bar codes or mag stripes or both on them, why not just use that.

No paper required.

Verizon Wireless charges me only 25c to send/receive a picture image. I don't know what other plans charge, but I suspect even at an a la carte rate it's not really a problem unless one is a very frequently flyer.

I use an unlocked secondhand cellphone with a different carrier's firmware in it, so I, too, can only receive voice and text.