Thorn Autocall

sounds like a thorn alright, in your side. ;)

That's the price you pay with addressable systems. If one device starts shorting out, or begins doing weird things, all devices after the affected module will start reporting corrupt data, thus false alarms & troubles.

The best way I found troubleshoot these problems is to isolate the module. I remove & deprogram the offending module from the system and see if the trouble goes away. I can't tell you how many times I have found heavy condensation, bugs, or even modules filled with water because someone decided that pressure washing everything in sight was a good idea at the time.

Jim Rojas

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

There are so many things that can cause this they are too numerous to mention. What you are looking for as a trouble could be tempered by the age of the system. Meaning is this a fairly new installation or has it been in and working for a while? I guess the first thing to ask is what have you eliminated as a source of trouble? All of the standard ones? No grounds, opens, shorts, inductances? If it is a recent installation you could check to see if the wire itself is in spec? Many analog systems carry a heavy wire spec. Many want low capacitance. It is not uncommon for a bad module to cause many of the problems you describe. In many cases it is NOT actually the module that is reporting the trouble. You have to use a divide and conquer troubleshooting technique to find it. It can be time consuming and frustrating. A problem like this stands out in my mind. A fire alarm system for a new grocery store (a major chain store). We were trying to get the system up and running at the eleventh hour because the customer had accelerated the opening by two weeks. We had about 15 technicians on site trying to figure out what was wrong. It turned out to be the fire alarm wire itself was defective. There was a bad wire run on a certain date and time and since this was a bulk wire order, we ended up with most of it. Lucky us. The store was opened on time and the wire manufacturer paid us for time, trouble, lost profit etc. Sometimes the solution is a one off strange problem like this, but most of the time it isn't. You may pull a rabbit out of a hat by checking this and guessing that. In the long run I think that making a list and working down the list makes more sense.

wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Actually this particular "problem" is fairly common to "distributed" or "addressable" systems.

A thorn in my side for sure.

Any Autocall people out there?

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Normally, I've found that the addressable fire systems will give me a trouble when a module is begining to go haywire as it misses it polling sequence. With this panel and modules, as a module starts to become defective, either every module on the loop goes into trouble for an instant, or an alarm happens on an unrelated module. This is very disheartening. I find it very hard to believe that the Thorn Autocall passed any UL inspection with this monkey-business. Maybe that's why they are not in the US anymore.

I was mainly soliciting anyone whom may have had experience dealing with this particular panel. Also, the modules tie into Autocall TFX-400 panels and network back to the main panel..

I used to post and read in this newsgroup quite a bit; years ago. Not suprisingly are the helpful and numerous replies. That's why I thought about posting my dilemma here to begin with.

I have taken very detailed readings on all the legs of the wiring. I am convinced that a module(s) is the culprit. Yes, since the system is 15 years old it's time to upgrade (only because of this problem). (I am not one to advise the customer to upgrade for the sake of more bells and whistles for the technician, but this system has the Fire Department running on troubles!)

yea u canadians are so smart, eh?

whaddya need a dam fridge for beer anyway, its so cold, just put it on the porch.

Actually we have a glacier in our back yard. Every winter it advances to the back door which makes getting the beer so much easier. And in the summer it retreats enough so there's enough room for the barbeque and a few chairs. Gotta be careful with the ice pick though. It's why I prefer the "keg". We get a long flex-drill and punch a hole through the ice to the keg and "voila" (as the say in Quebec, Northern Alberta, and some parts of Manitoba), a cold beer fountain.

The problem isn't that the module fails to respond to polling. That would be too easy.

The problem is that the module is responding with digital garbage, sent at the wrong time. The system sees these signals as coming from some other module, or the garbage data will knock out communications with other modules, causing the system to think that they are in trouble.

Sometimes you can get a clue from the very first signal that comes in. Sometimes, you just have to start looking.

Moisture is a common problem. Look carefully at the module circuit boards on both sides for white or green spots. Look for signs of a leaky roof; water can drip down a wall and wreck a module.

Good luck. Sometimes, these can be a bear to find.

- badenov

man now thats how to save the planet, eh. is it labatts or molson?

Warsteiner or Beck's. I don't drink Canadian swill.

it's one of the easier fire alarm panels that Grinnell fire ever had.if you know what you are doing you can isolate the bad device in no time. the panel has a fast access system built in it.you should be able to see raw data as they come into the system.

monkey today thats how to reiterate the continent, eh. is it labatts or molson?

I doubt if its either, how would they know if they had corroborated the keg or were just resorting up corruptible foulness.

Doug

Warsteiner or Pushkin's. I don't drink Hippy swill.

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Are you still having problems with your panel? I used to work for Thorn Automated-Grinnell-SimplexGrinnell.

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Are you still having problems with your panel? I used to work for Thorn Automated-Grinnell-SimplexGrinnell.

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Are you still having problems with your panel? I used to work for Thorn Automated-Grinnell-SimplexGrinnell.