While being a long time away from Paradox panels (from the era of Esprit and Spectra 14XX) now returning trying to understand SP series. I define zone 12 witch is on zx8 expander as 36 (entry delay 1 (full arm)/instant) but the panel does not recognize it at all. The panel is SP5500 v3.8 Any idea why that? Do i have to programm something else around? Also where is located the address for enabling panic buttons on the keypad? And for last how we can arm in instant stay mode if i can't programm the entry/exit zones as 36? (entry delay 1 (full arm)/instant)
RHC; Spiros, be very careful to test out all of these new zone definations to make sure they work after you program them. Even Paradox tech support is not sure what each of these new ones actually do and have given us incorrect information on several occasions. For example, zone category 33 is supposed to be "instant", but it doesn't work at all, yet category 24 does That part of the manual is a total screwup - do NOT trust that section of the manual at all.!!
I have no idea why Paradox has overly complicated their panels with the addition of so many new and incomprehensible zone definitions. I am going to contact the company and ask that their programming manual be seriously clarified. It seems in trying to make their panels do everything for everyone, they've simply seriously confused their customers.
you are right, as they told me from the tech department of the local dealer, in some versions this new definitions do not work and they need to update the panel...
This sounds a little different.=20 I don't know anything at all about Paradox but it sounds as if they've "pre= programed" various combinations of zone features into a series of double di= git numbers. FBI started doing this years ago in their XL series, so you do= n't have to tick off each feature for each zone.=20
Napco lets (or makes .... depending upon if you think it's a convenience o= r not) you choose each feature for each zone. That's one of the features th= at's part of the convenience (or not) of having the umpteen gazillion defin= itions and choices. Lot's of people consider this as being too complicated = to comprehend or don't want to bother to learn it, and don't use Napco beca= use of it. Most installers now days only have the ability to use the "Alarm= panel programing for Dummy's" style of programing. So, in my opinion, I th= ink that if you can't use a laptop to program a panel then you deserve less= versatility in your panels.
I don't often use many of the extra Napco features anymore but .... it's be= tter to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.=20
For instance I have a job coming up where they want opening and closing sig= nals but only want one user to have access on certain days and auto arming = on certain days. I've got to check it out on how to do this but I'm guessin= g the 9600 can do it.=20
If nothing else, it keeps the brain juices flowing.
reprogramed" various combinations of zone features into a series of double = digit numbers. FBI started doing this years ago in their XL series, so you = don't have to tick off each feature for each zone.
ce or not) you choose each feature for each zone. That's one of the feature= s that's part of the convenience (or not) of having the umpteen gazillion d= efinitions and choices. Lot's of people consider this as being too complica= ted to comprehend or don't want to bother to learn it, and don't use Napco = because of it. Most installers now days only have the ability to use the "A= larm panel programing for Dummy's" style of programing. So, in my opinion, = I think that if you can't use a laptop to program a panel then you deserve = less versatility in your panels.
better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
ignals but only want one user to have access on certain days and auto armin= g on certain days. I've got to check it out on how to do this but I'm guess= ing the 9600 can do it.
RHC: Paradox may or may not have their reasons for over complicating their panels this way; however, they should never put out a manual that is 1- dead wrong, 2- doesn't explain these new changes, and 3- not teach their tech support guys what the hell these new zone definitions mean (I've had wrong advice twice now..). If they want to save costs of printing, all they have to do is put up a downloadable PDF on their website, which dealers could keep with them, that explains each zone definition in detail. DSC does that albeit in their manual; every other manufacturer does that in some fashion, why doesn't Paradox. These guys keep rushing their technical changes out to the field so quickly, we can't keep up. Each version of the panel is somewhat different, and very little is "backward compatible". God forbid, is they don't stop this shit, I'm going to have to switch over to DSC as my standard panel (brrrrr....)
I see no reason to celebrate the unnecessary complication of ANYTHING, let alone zone definitions that are critical to the proper functioning of an alarm system. The "Dummies Guide to Whatever" is published to plow through the complexity of the subject matter at hand - the intention being to simplify the learning curve. Using a laptop helps in programming; however, Paradox uses a memory key that does a great job of assisting in hand programming these complex panels making a laptop far less convenient.
Napco's problem is while they may have configurable zones they only have a few CID/SIA reporting codes making it a pain to deal with from a central station point of view. With Honeywell at least you can add any code you want.
a few CID/SIA reporting codes making it a pain to deal with from a central = station point of view. With Honeywell at least you can add any code you wan= t.
That hasn't created any problems for MY central station, or me. Every so of= ten when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When putting an acc= ount on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how I want my= central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4/2format f= or so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the central is used= to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, in the pres= ent generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that installers havin= g to think about what they are doing is not part of an installation.
"These guys keep rushing their technical changes out to the field so quickly, we can't keep up. Each version of the panel is somewhat different, and very little is "backward compatible".
Robert you are right, even keypads are not compatible with previous versions. Coming back to where i start it, i only want to make a delay zone changing into instant the user while in stay mode. The most common practise in stay mode. Even is doing without any need of programming directly from the keypad for Honeywell's panels, like Ademco Vista, Omni and the old FBII XL series and many many other panels from plenty of manufacturers. I switch to Honeywell panels from the era of espirt and spectra series and i came back to paradox those days in order to "watch out" the new SP series with STAYD but untill now i am little bit dissapointed. Paradox does good panels but they mesh out the tech with every new versionthey came out...
e a few CID/SIA reporting codes making it a pain to deal with from a centra= l station point of view. With Honeywell at least you can add any code you w= ant.
often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When putting an a= ccount on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how I want = my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4/2format= for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the central is us= ed to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, in the pr= esent generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that installers hav= ing to think about what they are doing is not part of an installation.
That's fine for YOUR central station but with others if the panel cannot se= nd the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
o often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When putting an= account on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how I wan= t my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4/2form= at for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the central is = used to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, in the = present generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that installers h= aving to think about what they are doing is not part of an installation.
send the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
Then maybe your central station should up-grade it's receiver to one that y= ou don't have to wind up every morning. (just kidding)
You mean to say that with all of the electronical thingys available today t= hat there are central stations that only have receivers that wont accept an= ything but full CID/SIA codes?=20
What about all the legacy panels out there? My guess is that there are more= legacy panels in the field than CID/SIA only panels .... or at least enoug= h of them so that centrals can't/wouldn't just ignore them. I've got a few = accounts that send both CID and 4/2 format on the same account number and o= ne account with and old Adcor, sending 3/1
so often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When putting = an account on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how I w= ant my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4/2fo= rmat for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the central i= s used to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, in th= e present generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that installers= having to think about what they are doing is not part of an installation.
t send the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
you don't have to wind up every morning. (just kidding)
that there are central stations that only have receivers that wont accept = anything but full CID/SIA codes?
re legacy panels in the field than CID/SIA only panels .... or at least eno= ugh of them so that centrals can't/wouldn't just ignore them. I've got a fe= w accounts that send both CID and 4/2 format on the same account number and= one account with and old Adcor, sending 3/1
In Greece they are also outhere plenty of stand alone panels with external communicators from the past using 4X2 format. Also panels like XL2, Ranger etc... So a receiver cannot ignore the old pulse formats yet.
so often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When putting = an account on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how I w= ant my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4/2fo= rmat for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the central i= s used to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, in th= e present generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that installers= having to think about what they are doing is not part of an installation.
t send the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
you don't have to wind up every morning. (just kidding)
that there are central stations that only have receivers that wont accept = anything but full CID/SIA codes?=20
re legacy panels in the field than CID/SIA only panels .... or at least eno= ugh of them so that centrals can't/wouldn't just ignore them. I've got a fe= w accounts that send both CID and 4/2 format on the same account number and= one account with and old Adcor, sending 3/1
We have tons of 4x2, Modem and whatever accounts, I was referring to panels= that can send CID or SIA but can't properly send the event. It's not a big= deal to design that into a panel
ry so often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When puttin= g an account on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how I= want my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4/2= format for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the central= is used to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, in = the present generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that installe= rs having to think about what they are doing is not part of an installation= .
not send the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
at you don't have to wind up every morning. (just kidding)
ay that there are central stations that only have receivers that wont accep= t anything but full CID/SIA codes?=20
more legacy panels in the field than CID/SIA only panels .... or at least e= nough of them so that centrals can't/wouldn't just ignore them. I've got a = few accounts that send both CID and 4/2 format on the same account number a= nd one account with and old Adcor, sending 3/1
ls that can send CID or SIA but can't properly send the event. It's not a b= ig deal to design that into a panel
It's likewise not a big deal to tell the central station what to do when th= ey receive a certain signal. If they can do it for 4/2 format they can do i= t for CID also.
very so often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When putt= ing an account on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work how= I want my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with 4= /2format for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the centr= al is used to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However, i= n the present generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that instal= lers having to think about what they are doing is not part of an installati= on.
annot send the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
that you don't have to wind up every morning. (just kidding)
oday that there are central stations that only have receivers that wont acc= ept anything but full CID/SIA codes?
e more legacy panels in the field than CID/SIA only panels .... or at least= enough of them so that centrals can't/wouldn't just ignore them. I've got = a few accounts that send both CID and 4/2 format on the same account number= and one account with and old Adcor, sending 3/1
nels that can send CID or SIA but can't properly send the event. It's not a= big deal to design that into a panel
they receive a certain signal. If they can do it for 4/2 format they can do= it for CID also.- =C1=F0=FC=EA=F1=F5=F8=E7 =EA=E5=E9=EC=DD=ED=EF=F5 =F3=E5= =F0=E1=F1=DC=E8=E5=F3=E7 -
They are plenty of new panels in the market that add a new event with a cid code that the arc has not upload at the cid format. Its easy as you said for the tech to inform the central station for this new event. But most of the times the tech guy does not know about this "unknown" new event (i.e. "log full", "supervision lost" etc) So how will inform the arc? :-)
Every so often when I have a gas alarm or other non common device, When pu= tting an account on line I just have to indicate on the set up paper work h= ow I want my central to respond when they get that signal. Having delt with= 4/2format for so many years, that's not an effort for me to do and the cen= tral is used to it, I guess..... because they say it's no problem. However,= in the present generation of programing for Dummys, it's obvious that inst= allers having to think about what they are doing is not part of an installa= tion.
cannot send the proper CID/SIA signals it's not accepted.
e that you don't have to wind up every morning. (just kidding)
today that there are central stations that only have receivers that wont a= ccept anything but full CID/SIA codes?
are more legacy panels in the field than CID/SIA only panels .... or at lea= st enough of them so that centrals can't/wouldn't just ignore them. I've go= t a few accounts that send both CID and 4/2 format on the same account numb= er and one account with and old Adcor, sending 3/1
panels that can send CID or SIA but can't properly send the event. It's not= a big deal to design that into a panel
n they receive a certain signal. If they can do it for 4/2 format they can = do it for CID also.- =CE=91=CF=80=CF=8C=CE=BA=CF=81=CF=85=CF=88=CE=B7 =CE= =BA=CE=B5=CE=B9=CE=BC=CE=AD=CE=BD=CE=BF=CF=85 =CF=83=CE=B5 =CF=80=CE=B1=CF= =81=CE=AC=CE=B8=CE=B5=CF=83=CE=B7 -
I'm not sure that I understand that.=20 If I understand you right, the Tech guy may not know that the "new" code is= in the panel but the central should have standard operation procedures to = respond to certain codes even if they haven't been told to respond to them.= and the least that they should do is inform the customer or the alarm comp= any that this "new" code has been received. =20
The situation with Napco panels is: Rather than having lot's of CID codes pre programed into the Firmware of th= e panel, Napco just sends the basic essential codes ..... Burg, Fire, Panic= ,24hour, telephone line and communication fail, opening and closing signals= , low battery, AC power loss, restore, trouble, and (I think) gas, CID code= s. There are more but I don't remember all of them. Most other manufacturer= s panels can send in 5o or 100 or more different CID codes and I think some= one said that some panels allow you to add your own codes, if they're not = part of the original list. So with Napco, in the event that you are monitor= ing, let's say a water sensor, you have to designate it as a 24hour zone re= port in the programing and then tell the central station that the signal th= at they receive on that zone is a water sensor alarm rather than the panel = being able to send in the CID code for a water sensor. =20
As I say, it's not a big deal and doesn't happen that often.
the panel, Napco just sends the basic essential codes ..... Burg, Fire, Pan= ic,24hour, telephone line and communication fail, opening and closing signa= ls, low battery, AC power loss, restore, trouble, and (I think) gas, CID co= des. There are more but I don't remember all of them. Most other manufactur= ers panels can send in 5o or 100 or more different CID codes and I think so= me one said that some panels allow you to add your own codes, if they're no= t part of the original list. So with Napco, in the event that you are monit= oring, let's say a water sensor, you have to designate it as a 24hour zone = report in the programing and then tell the central station that the signal = that they receive on that zone is a water sensor alarm rather than the pane= l being able to send in the CID code for a water sensor. =20
Having to tell a central station that "well this is a water alarm and this = one is high temperature" just doesn't cut it when the customer is suing you= later because of a botched response.=20
It can't be all that difficult to put CID/SIA codes into a panel and Napco = has a whopping 10 codes available for zone programming which is absurd.
f the panel, Napco just sends the basic essential codes ..... Burg, Fire, P= anic,24hour, telephone line and communication fail, opening and closing sig= nals, low battery, AC power loss, restore, trouble, and (I think) gas, CID = codes. There are more but I don't remember all of them. Most other manufact= urers panels can send in 5o or 100 or more different CID codes and I think = some one said that some panels allow you to add your own codes, if they're = not part of the original list. So with Napco, in the event that you are mon= itoring, let's say a water sensor, you have to designate it as a 24hour zon= e report in the programing and then tell the central station that the signa= l that they receive on that zone is a water sensor alarm rather than the pa= nel being able to send in the CID code for a water sensor. =20
s one is high temperature" just doesn't cut it when the customer is suing y= ou later because of a botched response.=20
o has a whopping 10 codes available for zone programming which is absurd.
s one is high temperature" just doesn't cut it when the customer is suing y= ou later because of a botched response.=20
o has a whopping 10 codes available for zone programming which is absurd.
I'd dare you to cite a case where someone was sued because of this, but I k= now that you are just using an unjustifiable, highly unlikely situation to = try to defend your unplausable position. I'd also ask you to point out how = many people don't use Napco products because they don't have lots of CID co= des. It's not all that important .... except maybe to someone like you who = doesn't have any (any that would count, that is) field experience and who's= central station biased. It may be important to you but it doesn't even ap= pear on the screen for installers. =20
And again ......... It likewise can't be all that difficult to tell the cen= tral station to respond to one zone in a certain way ..... unless of course= it's one of the majority of your installers that you so fondly call your c= ustomers, who can't use a laptop to program a panel. In that case I can und= erstand why you favor dumbing it down to their level. Obviously, there's no= reason to put one of these installers to the task of thinking.=20
Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.