NiCE what Honeywell/Ademco has done

Gee doesn't Napco supply for ADT? Oh wait that must be different

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Honeywell/Ademco never has been worried to much about independent dealers... GE isn't any better when it comes to the little guy, that's why I've become a Napco fan.........

Put me at the top of the list. Down with Mexico!

I have been using Ademco for 11 years. I am trying to switch to someone else because of rising prices, tech support switching to India (in the planning stages), and stuff like that web page. HONEYWELL is in it for the money not because they like the little guy. Remember they too are huge corporate monsters like ADt etc.

I am looking at DSC systems. I know, Tyco owns them too. Only thing I can do is switch companies. Anybody recommend a good panel company?

PS, I will call Ademco tomorrow about the web page. I suggest anyone with a problem do the same.

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 21:17:59 -0500, "Smitty" wrote: uy.

EVERY manufacturer is in it for the money, In my opinion Honeywell has that web page because most people viewing the page would be familiar with the companies listed, it's not a slam against small dealers at all.

Kind of a loaded question ! Everyone will recommend the panels they have either standardized on, and know best, me included. But if you're looking for suggestions, I have had superb luck with Paradox panels, both the older ones and the newer ones. And their tech support is excellent by any standards. They aren't in India or some other godforsaken place; they are in Montreal, Canada.

DSC is also excellent equipment. Their tech support is reasonable, although their panels tend to do strange things from time to time. Another dealer friend of mine has had good luck with Caddyx equipment.

Just my 2 cents..

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

restaurants,

No offense RH but I seriously doubt they or any other manufacturer told ADT that since it would be pretty stupid considering the volume ADTdoes unless they couldn't meet the demand which is DSC's problem.

I also don't see how anyone here thinks any manufacturer "sold out", this is a business and in order to stay in business they have to make money be it from ADT, Brinks or Joe's alarmco. When you have a company like ADT which spends 40-50 million a year in equipment (my guess, it's likely much higher) a manufacturer would be out of its mind not to try a deal with them. If it wasn't Honeywell it would be GE, or Bosch or Napco. If you had a web page showing companies that you installed for wouldn't you list the bigger ones that people may know? I sure would and thats what Honeywell did.

As far as Paradox not going to large mass marketers my guess is they don't have the distribution channel but if you think about it why else would they have created the Magellan?

I'm not surprised at that sort of response from Paradox. They are not so big that they've forgotten who their customers really are. And, they haven't sold out to the large mass marketers either. And rumour has it they told ADT where to go some years ago.......

BTW, Montreal is a beautiful city, full of French culture, fine restaurants, beautiful women, and generally friendly people. You can walk the streets at night without taking your life in your hands as well. No....Detroit and Chicago are far more "godforsaken" when it comes right down to it.....

RHC

Give Napco a look at

... Systems Depot and some of the independent distributors carry their products....... Good Luck, Russ

Now thats uncalled for! LOL I would be more then willing to show you the beauty of living in the montreal region.. if you ever come around just leave me a message and i will manage to show you the best stuff there is around montreal

I can say that Stephane Racicot is very effective and a man with a lot of knowledge.. got him to come on some job site with me, and beside being a good human being with a pretty fun character,he know his job!

Small wonder turning down business, then again it could be due to demand

It also could be they don't want to deal with it and I can't blame them, not because of the equipment quality but because its another panel to provide support for

And its hard enough dealing with whats out there now considering what ADT monitors which is everything

Lol sounds like a NESS panel I know of however if it is what a particular customer wanted then it's not stupid in my opinion.

Exactly! For the mass marketer they apparently haven't sold out for :)

Now IF someone like ADT started using that panel would you change to something else since Paradox has apparently "sold out"? No of course not. Choose the panel based on what you think of it not who else is buying them

I mean no offense by this but I think sometimes your dislike for large companies like ADT sometimes colors (sorry I mean colours :) ) some of your opinions

Careful, Napco makes a version of the GEM-P800 just for ADT, I hope they don't put up a web page like Honeywell.... :)

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And Montreal isn't a godforsaken place?? ;)

I personally like Paradox as well. I've found their panels the easiest to program of the few I've worked with (DSC are about the worst).

Their sales people have also been amazing for me. When my regular wholesaler (who shall remain nameless) told me Paradox no longer has available the 'relay' version of their Paradome sensor (the one with normally-open contacts), Paradox gave me the proper part number and assured me they still made them... when the wholesaler FINALLY managed to find a listing for the part on some loose sheet of paper (it's STILL not listed in their computers), they still insisted it must be no longer made, but after I forwarded them the email from Paradox, finally figured out that I'd need to place a minimum order for 300 units (I really only needed one, for a special project).

Finally when I asked Paradox either to suggest another dealer who WOULD sell me just one, or to sell me one directly, or even just provide schematics so I could modify the one I had, they apologized for the difficulty I had in finding the unit and promised to send me one directly... for free. When the box arrived... they'd sent me five.

Not a big deal to them, I'm sure - our cost on them is normally around $25-$30, and to Paradox they're probably worth about $10. For $50 they bought themselves a LOT of goodwill.

Mark, if you knew the guy that runs Paradox, you would know it is perfectly believable that he told ADT he wasn't interested. While I don't normally like dealing in rumours, this supposedly happened at a time when Paradox was still in it's initial growth stage, and a smart businessman like this guy would never overextend his reach that early in the growth of his company. I suspect (although I have no way of proving it) that he couldn't come to any sort of agreement with them based on a lot of factors, not the least being their need for a volume that at that time, he couldn't handle. However, rumour has it that he simply didn't like dealing with them for personal reasons....but who really knows. Paradox has spend the majority of it's early business development time selling overseas where no one has an established foothold like the Ademcos of the world do in the USA. They only now are starting to penetrate the established US market where competition is stiff, and I gather their growth is slow.

Anyway, the end result is that ADT sales staff routinely tell clients that the equipment is junk, and supposedly won't deal with it at all. This could be due to hard feelings, but is more likely based on early experience they had with pre 2.0 versions of the Esprit panels (which were junk, pure and simple..). However, since I still have 10 Paradox panels monitored on ADT's station, I do know they will monitor it (and why wouldn't they after all....)

Paradox has only pulled one pure stupid move that I know of. Some years ago, they produced a version of the Esprit panel which after one week in service, could never be reprogrammed with any other receiver number. This was to cater to several large mass marketers in the Montreal area. I have to wonder how these customers are handling the 10 digit dialing that is going to be mandatory sometime soon (guys, if you see these panels, simply change the main eeprom for a later one from a scrap board, and the problem will disappear)

IMO, the Magellan is simply their move to equal the competition in regards to having a mass marketing panel available.

RHC

Agreed ! I do have to watch what I think and say, to make sure that my opinions are not unduly coloured by my dislike for the ADT's of the world. It's called prejudice, or bias, and unfortunately affects us all in some way or another. For each of us, it's something different, and it has to be guarded against at all times. Left to grow unchecked, such biases can lead to all sorts of social ills and injustices, and especially so when they occur within large groups of people.

It's not my dislike for large companies (hell, I worked for one for 27 years), it's my dislike of companies that charge too much and give too little in return; those who do nothing but sell shitty systems for the long term contracts; those who care nothing about REAL customer service; those who make us all look like second rate opportunists.

I take no offence; thanks for the "heads up"....however, the story about Paradox I heard from a very reliable source some years ago. I do think it is true; however, considering my feelings about ADT, I hope I haven't unknowingly embellished it some over the years....

RHC

I mis-typed in my reply

"Small wonder turning down business, then again it could be due to demand"

I meant to say

"Small wonder turning down business, then again it could be due to supply"

I didn't want you to think I was slamming the product.

Yabbut... it's in EASTERN Canada. And it's all full of those bastardized-French-language loonies :)

(I'll agree with you about the scenery tho... both types ;)

Not a big deal to them, I'm sure - our cost on them is normally around

Yup, that's the guy I traded emails with. Told him if he was ever in Vancouver, beers were on me :)

better be ready,he will surely take the offer!