"Blanks" kill actors

I find it very interesting that people who disagree with me on this thread make the assumption that no facts exist to back up what I have stated as facts, even citing where I found these facts (in one case, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, which is not a gun-control organization but does have research to back up their statistics).

I also find it interesting all the name-calling and false association with particular political affiliations. Such as "liberal pandering for shorter sentencing." Which is, of course, nonsense. There may be some thought to reducing the nutty drug sentencing guidelines such as we have here in NY, but aside from that I know of no groups trying to shorten prison sentences. But it's popular among some conservatives to claim that they're the law-and-order group, and therefore the other side wants to open prison doors and let the bad guys run loose.

Let's stick to the issue here.

Guns can be dangerous. So can cars. But suggesting that we ban cars because they're dangerous is silly and detracts from the debate.

I will say that anybody who seriously believes that there is a vast conspiracy among the media to hide any stories about guns being used to stop crimes, well, I can't take that person seriously, and in fact if I were to advocate taking away guns, people who believe in such nonsense ought to be the first to lose their guns. IF, I said.

Regarding what car or truck might be in an accident, in the publications I read they generally say car or SUV, as appropriate. Often they mention the model of the vehicle.

And I have read plenty of balanced articles on guns.

Regarding kids shot, NO, I am talking about particular stories, and NOT statistics. So no, I am not counting gang shootings, only when a little kid finds a gun and someone gets shot. Not the gang shootings. I am talking about the several-time-a-year article in which a kid finds a gun left around, plays with it, and BANG! little Timmy is dead.

I'm talking about gun safety, not gun confiscation.

Shaun Eli wrote:

Shaun, you've overstated your point. We all know what you think. Most here either know that you're wrong, don't agree with you or don't care what you think. I did a five minute search and for brevity I only offer you a couple of pages out of hundreds. Nuff said.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sequin Gazette Enterprise, Sequin, TX, 06/12/05

Jennifer Cooper had never fired a gun before, but when an intruder invaded her home as her two sons slept peacefully, she knew she had to take action. At 10:40 p.m., she heard the chime of her front door sound. Cooper had not set the home alarm system because her husband, Gary, was in San Antonio at a Spurs basketball game, and she was awaiting his return. "I could hear footsteps," she said. When she called her husband's name and no one answered, she ran into the master bedroom -- where she had left her children -- and locked the door. Seconds later, Cooper heard someone twisting the doorknob. There was no phone in the bedroom, so she was unable to call the police. Cooper and her children spent the next two hours in fear, hoping whoever was on the other side of the door would leave. She yelled through the door that the house was alarmed and that the police were on their way, but the intruder turned on all the lights and the television and periodically twisted the doorknob. "We talked and we prayed a lot," she said. Then she retrieved a .357 Mag. from the closet. When she thought she heard the lock being picked, Cooper pointed the gun at the door and fired. All went quiet, and footsteps and the door chime signaled the stranger's exit. When Gary Cooper returned home he found his family huddled together, a smoking gun in his wife's hand and a bullet hole in his bedroom door. Jennifer Cooper has vowed to never become a victim. "I'm going to start taking classes," she said. "My husband said it's the first thing on the agenda."

Montgomery Advertiser, Montgomery, AL, 04/19/05

A 66-year-old Montgomery, Ala., man and his handgun prevented a would-be robber from making off with a bank bag belonging to a church. The victim had arrived at a bank on a Monday morning, ready to deposit funds from his congregation, when he was approached by a man who forced him to the ground and took the money. However, the church courier stood up, drew his gun and fired a shot that foiled the crime. His attacker initially fell to the ground and subsequently fled, but dropped the bank bag in the process. All the money inside was recovered. Police said later it was uncertain if the suspect had been struck by the shot, or if he had simply fallen.

The Tampa Tribune, Tampa, FL, 04/16/05

The hooded armed robber likely thought the older, female clerk would be an easy mark as he entered a Tampa convenience store, brandishing his gun and demanding money. He wasn't counting on confronting someone like Janet Grammer. The 64-year-old mother of 10, a former security guard, pulled her own gun from under the cash register and fired, hitting the criminal in the chest. "I think he thought I was an old woman and would just give him the money," Grammer said after the incident. "I think I scared the hell out of him. I thought he was getting ready to shoot me in the head. My life was at stake." Grammer, who also has 32 grandchildren, three great-grandchildren and three great-great-grandchildren, later said she worried that she had killed the hospitalized assailant. "It was very upsetting. The good Lord had to be with me," she said.

The Press-Enterprise, Riverside, CA, 03/26/05

"This is a robbery!" someone hollered. Colton, Calif., liquor store owner Dan Lee grabbed for a pistol that was beneath the cash register, but in an instant he found himself staring down the barrel of a robber's gun. At the same time, he noticed another man climbing over the counter toward his mother. Lee grabbed his gun and shot them both. "He pretty much made the decision for me when he came over the counter at my mother and threatened her life," Lee said. After three recent robberies and three slayings of business owners and clerks in the San Bernardino Valley, Lee recommends that people in high-risk businesses consider what they will do in the event of a worst-case scenario.

The Charlotte Observer, Charlotte, NC, 02/26/05

The attempted holdup of a Charlotte area shoe store was foiled when a store employee returned fire against robbers who had begun shooting inside the store. According to witnesses, three or four men wearing ski masks and carrying guns entered the store, announcing, "This is a robbery." One of the thieves began searching store patrons and, shortly thereafter, the men began shooting. However, a store clerk quickly grabbed a gun of his own and fired back, striking at least two of the crooks. One crumpled in a doorway and later died at the hospital. Another man, whom police suspect was involved in the robbery, arrived at an area hospital with life-threatening injuries. Neither the clerk nor any store employees or customers were injured. "The [clerk] did a good job. He saved us. He saved my kid. He saved our lives," said store customer Ramon Lopez.

The Augusta Chronicle, Augusta, GA, 01/25/05

Shoats Grocery & Package is a small store where neighbors often stop for breakfast or lunch, but owners Bobby and Gloria Doster said two strangers who entered their business had more nefarious intentions. Gloria Doster was rearranging boxes by the front door when a wigged man came through it; behind him, another masked man announced they were robbing the store. One intruder grabbed her and pushed her toward the register, while the other kept his gun on her 62-year-old husband. As Gloria tried to open the register, the assailant told her she wasn't moving fast enough and shot at her husband. Not only did he miss, but his gun jammed. Bobby Doster then retrieved a .380-caliber handgun and shot one of the men while his wife drew a 9mm pistol she keeps near the register. They both opened fire on the other robber. "I was trying to shoot and dial 911 at the same time," Gloria Doster said. Police arrived about five minutes after her call and took the men to the hospital, where both died soon after.

Florida Today, Jacksonville, FL, 03/20/2005

A Jacksonville, Fla., cabbie was dropping off two passengers when a robber with a gun burst onto the scene. The cab driver halted the attack by shooting the culprit in the chest. Police said the criminal, who died at the scene, had been hiding in the bushes and made his move as the passengers were exiting the car.

The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, LA, 02/06/05

For the second time in four days, a New Orleans, La., armed citizen turned the tables on would-be robbers. In this instance, according to authorities, two teenage brothers, Micah and Darius Adams, approached an unidentified man who was returning to his car late one night. Just as the man reached his car, Micah Adams drew a gun and demanded money. The man produced his own firearm and fired at Adams, hitting him several times in the torso. Although he tried to escape, Micah Adams was later found dead on a nearby street. Darius Adams was subsequently apprehended by police and was facing murder charges since he was accused of helping to commit a felony that resulted in a death.

Dayton Daily News, Dayton, OH, 01/15/05

Thanks to the quick thinking of a sub shop owner in Dayton, Ohio, a robbery attempt was quickly thwarted. The manager and his wife were working the morning shift when they spotted a man with a mask and sunglasses heading toward the store with a gun in hand. The owner triggered the security system and retrieved his gun. One employee described what happened next: "[The suspect] got up on the counter. I was scared. I just dropped to the floor." The robber, however, who was pointing his gun at the manager, did not even have time to speak because the manager pointed his gun and shot him in the arm. He fled and was later apprehended at his sister's house. He was expected to be charged with aggravated robbery.

Press-Telegram, Los Angeles, CA, 01/22/05

A 24-year-old Long Beach, Calif., resident was sitting in his car at a fastfood restaurant when an armed man forced his way into the car. The carjacker, later identified as Maurice Adams, ordered the victim at gunpoint to drive to another neighborhood and then robbed him. While Adams was rooting through the trunk looking for more items, the victim grabbed his own gun, which was concealed in the glove compartment, and began to run. Adams opened fire on the victim, striking him; in turn, Adams was shot multiple times by the victim. Adams died shortly after arriving at the hospital. The victim, whose name was withheld for his own protection, was said to be recovering from his wounds.

2theadvocate.com, Baton Rouge, LA, 02/17/05

Georgia Belle Sullivan of Clinton, La., will never know if her former employee, Arthur Sanford, came back for money, revenge or both. Sullivan was up late watching television when she heard a noise that caused her two dogs to start barking wildly. She took her pistol and went to investigate, but before she fully realized what was happening a shadowy figure lunged at her. Although she fired at the intruder, he kept coming and the two struggled for the gun. Sullivan said, "He beat me with his fists. He was trying to get the gun out of my hand, but he never did." Sanford continued to attack, saying that he wanted money, until his grip finally loosened and he died on the spot from the gunshot wound to his chest. Sanford had worked on Sullivan's cattle farm for years, but had been fired three years earlier because of suspected drug use. Sanford also had a history of arrests for armed robbery.

The Telegraph, Nashua, NH, 01/19/05

A Hollis, N.H., man was awakened one night to the sounds of screaming in his back yard. The homeowner, Donald Narkis, grabbed his gun and headed downstairs when he heard glass breaking in the kitchen. Narkis fired in the direction of the intruder, who, undeterred, continued to advance as he screamed and smashed furniture. Together with his armed daughter, Narkis ordered the intruder onto the floor, but the man wouldn't stay down. Narkis fired again, but the shot hit next to the intruder's leg. When police arrived on the scene, the intruder, identified as Peter Camplin, complained, "that psycho tried to shoot me." Camplin, who had moved into the neighborhood only months previously, was found to have a significant amount of cocaine and alcohol in his system.

The Dickenson Star, Clintwood, VA, 12/22/04

As Clyde Colley looked down at the gunshot wound in his leg and then up at his wife, he decided that if he did not do something, they would both die. Almost two hours earlier, two men had broken into their Sandlick, Va., home, shot Mr. Colley and ordered the elderly couple to get on the floor. As one of the intruders held the couple at gunpoint, the other ransacked the house. Finally, Colley said that he was not feeling well and needed to go to lie down. This excuse gave him enough time to get to his gun, which he fired twice, killing one intruder and sending the other fleeing into the night. As their phone lines had been cut, Mrs. Colley was forced to run down the driveway and flag down help. Police later apprehended the surviving intruder, Mazel Sexton, and charged him with numerous felony counts. Colley was not expected to be charged in the death of the intruder, who was identified as Hubert Howard, Jr.

Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Atlanta, GA, 01/26/05

Gloria Turner remembers firing with one hand and dialing 911 with the other. Turner and her husband, Bobby Doster, had owned their grocery store for eight years and, although they were prepared for the worst, they did not expect it. But one evening, while the Turners were stocking their shelves, two teens walked in and demanded money. Turner recounts, "I was about to give it to them when the first guy said, 'You're not moving fast enough' and pulls out a gun." The robber aimed at Doster and fired, missing him. When their attackers' gun jammed, the couple had enough time to retreat behind the counter and grab their own guns. A gun battle erupted in the store. When it was over, both robbers were dead. Sheriff Mike Smith said that the store owners would not be charged, adding that, "People have a right to protect their lives and their property."

Arizona Daily Star, Tucson, AZ, 01/22/05

Richie Chapman of Bowie, Ariz., did not know that in exercising his right to protect his property, he was also aiding in bringing a murderer to justice. Chapman was working at a Bowie RV store when a man entered and demanded all the money in the cash register. The man then pulled out a gun, prompting Chapman to draw his own gun and fire, hitting the robber. "If he had gotten a shot off, I would have been dead," said Chapman. The robber fled and was later apprehended at a local hospital. The man turned out to be Johnny Lee Williams, who was being sought in the kidnapping and murder of an east Texas Wal-Mart employee, Megan Holden. After being treated at the hospital, Williams was turned over to the FBI.

The News Journal, Wilmington, DE, 12/13/04

A string of armed robberies finally came to an end in Wilmington, Del., when one victim fought back. Michael Brown had been on a three-month robbery spree when he decided to rob a local liquor store. When he displayed his gun, the store owner produced a gun of his own. Brown fled, but a police officer who was patrolling the neighborhood spotted him. He was able to track down Brown, who was found hiding under a porch. Brown was linked to at least three other armed robbery attempts and was charged with each of them.

Daily News Express, Monroe County, TN, 12/12/04

William Tyler had lived alone for many years in his small house at the end of Knob Road in Monroe County, Tenn., and this was not the first time his home had been burglarized. But one night, the phone lines were cut and the shadowy figure outside his house was undeterred by Tyler's warning. Tyler had no choice but to wait up all night with his gun in hand. At day-light, he made his way to a local grocer to call a friend, who agreed to meet him back at Tyler's house. Upon returning to his house alone, Tyler found a hatchet-wielding intruder in his home, who began to attack. Tyler endured several blows to the head before he was able to escape, retrieve his gun and fire a shot. Despite this, the intruder kept coming, and it was only then that Tyler shot him. The intruder died at the scene. "It appears to have all the ingredients of a self-defense case," said Det. Sgt. Mike Morgan.

Fayetteville Observer, Fayetteville, NC, 11/30/04

A Lake Waccamaw, N.C., store manager was stocking his shelves 15 minutes before closing time when an armed robber burst into the store and fired a shot. He then ordered the manager and other employees into the back room. One employee, however, "just sort of froze," and the robber went to grab her. This gave the manager a chance to retrieve his own gun, which he fired, hitting the robber at least twice. The slain gunman was pronounced dead at the scene. Authorities believe that he was behind at least one other armed robbery in the area.

The Herald, Pembroke Pines, NC, 10/19/04

"He didn't know my wife was a pit bull in a skirt," said John Moss, whose wife was accosted as she was getting out of her car. Felicia Moss of Pembroke Pines, N.C., was coming home to her apartment complex one afternoon when a man with a gun walked up to her and demanded money. Moss instead pulled out her pistol and a struggle ensued. Moss then shot the thief, who fled on foot, leaving behind a stolen vehicle. Shortly thereafter, a man fitting the same description approached another woman, demanded her keys and sped off. No one has been apprehended in either incident.

Journal-Star, Toluca, IL, 10/27/04

I've got a gun, don't come any farther," shouted Toluca, Ill., homeowner Brad Burns. But the warnings went unheeded and Burns fired, killing the intruder who was later identified as Douglas Sullivan.The incident began that night at 2 a.m., when Sullivan began shouting and swearing outside the home loudly enough to wake the neighbors. Sullivan then used a playground slide to smash a window and enter the house. Burns sent his wife and child into a closet while he retrieved his gun. He tried to scare off the intruder, but to no avail. Marshall County State Attorney Paul Bauer declared the shooting justifiable, saying, "There is no doubt in my mind that they were in fear of their lives."

News-Observer, Raleigh, NC, 10/20/04

Jewelry store owner Larry Dickerson was working in his Raleigh, N.C., store when he noticed that the three men who had come inside were acting suspiciously. Dickerson was making sure that his gun was handy when he noticed one man had taken a gun out of his pocket. "When he wheeled around, I hit the floor. He fired three shots at me," said Dickerson. A retired police officer, Dickerson, who never fired a shot in more than 20 years of duty, returned fire. No one was injured in the exchange. The three men then fled the store and have not been apprehended. "You have to have a gun," Dickerson said. "If I didn't have it, I'd be dead."

Pahrump Valley Times, Pahrump Valley, NV, 10/20/04

Nevada resident Dan Simmons was awakened early one morning by his houseguest who warned him that someone was trying to break into the house. The police were called, but no one was found. Shortly after the police left, a man approached the front door telling Simmons to come outside; he instead retrieved his gun. A moment later the glass in his front door shattered and the intruder made his way inside. Simmons fired, hitting the intruder, who in turn fled. Simmons said he believed the man may have at one time worked construction at his home. "I don't feel safe. I am taking precautions," Simmons later said of the incident, adding, "I advise everyone else in town to do the same."

Central Maine News, Eliot, ME, 11/05/04

In the dark of the night, an Eliot, Maine, homeowner was awakened to the sounds of pounding and screaming at his front door. David Oeser went to the entrance to find a 6-ft., 2-in., 330-lb. man breaking down his door. Oeser then fled to his bedroom but was followed by the intruder, who continued to scream incoherently. Oeser grabbed his gun and yelled several times, "Stop or I will shoot," but the man kept coming. Oeser fired, hitting him once. The man was apprehended at the scene. Police later revealed that less than 24 hours earlier, the intruder had been arrested and given a psychiatric exam after an unprovoked attack on a man in a local restaurant.

Times Daily, Florence, AL, 11/04/04

A man came looking for some easy money from what he thought was an easy target, but left empty-handed. The clerk at the convenience store in Colbert Heights, Ala., recounts that he arrived for work at 5:20 a.m. and noticed someone in a car outside. Shortly thereafter, the man in the car entered the store and got a drink from the cooler. When he approached the counter, he produced a large knife and demanded all the money in the cash register. The clerk, in return, produced his gun and asked, "Do you want this or the money?" The robber fled the store, but was later apprehended and charged with first-degree robbery.

Savannah Morning News, Savannah, GA, 10/30/04

Eighty-year-old Lonnie Morgan was just trying to be of help when he showed a stranger to his garage to get a tool to fix his broken-down car. When they got to the garage, the intruder hit Morgan over the head with a barbell, knocking him unconscious. When Morgan regained consciousness, he returned to the house only to find the intruder attacking his wife with a lamp. Morgan offered to get money for the man, but instead retrieved his gun and shot the intruder once. Police charged the intruder with aggravated assault and battery. The Morgans were both listed in fair condition at a local hospital.

The Daily Times, Rio Rancho, NM 10/13/04

When you are a judge, angry defendants come with the territory, but Judge Calvin Shields never expected he could lose his life over it. Shields was letting his dogs out late one evening when he saw a man looking into his house. He grabbed his gun and went outside to trigger the motion detector light. At that moment, Michael Tinervia opened fire on Shields who returned fire, fatally wounding Tinervia. Shields was only grazed in the knee. It was later discovered that Tinervia had been found guilty of reckless driving and interfering with a police officer in Shields' court and was awaiting sentencing by Shields. According to Shields' wife, Tinervia had called the house at 6:30 p.m. that night and asked for Calvin. When the judge answered, there was no one on the line. "It was to check if Calvin was home," she said, adding, "I had a bad feeling about it."

Birmingham News, Birmingham, AL, 10/13/04

An unwitting Shelby County, Ala., homeowner unknowingly helped in the capture of four inmates who had escaped from a Georgia prison. When the citizen arrived home early one morning, he found four men attempting to rob his house. The homeowner retrieved his gun and fired, hitting one in the face. The men fled but dropped off their injured conspirator at a nearby store so that he could get medical attention. Shortly thereafter, the three other men were apprehended in the area without incident. The homeowner was not charged, according to the local district attorney, because, "If we as a society ever get to the point where people are not entitled to defend themselves in their own home, then the law has totally lost its perspective."

The Times-Union Sampler, Jacksonville, FL, 10/14/04

A Jacksonville, Fla., man got the surprise of his life after he came home to find a knife-wielding teenage girl inside demanding his car keys. When the girl headed to another room to retrieve the keys, the homeowner, Richard Clark, ran to retrieve his gun. Moments later the two faced off in the house, and the teen charged at Clark with the knife. Clark shot once, hitting the teen in the face. She was charged with aggravated battery and armed burglary.

Muskegon Chronicle, Muskegon, MI, 09/30/04

Muskegon, Mich., store owner Michael Moore was working late one night in his office when he heard strange noises that he thought were probably animals. But when he heard the doorknob jiggle, he retrieved his gun and went to investigate. Seeing an armed man jump over the counter, Moore demanded that the intruder freeze. When he did not, Moore fired once, hitting the intruder in the shoulder. Moore immediately called 911 and waited for police and an ambulance to arrive.

Houston Chronicle, Houston, TX, 12/21/04

Woken up at 1:30 a.m., a 79-year-old man discovered a burglar in his Aldine, Tex., home. His first response was to ask the intruder to leave. After repeated requests were refused, the homeowner retrieved a gun and shot the intruder once, fatally

You can't outlaw stupidity although they keep trying

What you fail to understand is the 1st eventually leads to the 2nd as we noticed a couple of weeks ago in New Orleans when local authorities confiscated guns from law-abiding citizens, I wonder how they got the list of names??

NRA won in court concerning that just a couple of days ago

There's a video on

that is totally scary. Some nimrod driving around in a stolen car aims what looks like a .357 out the window several times and the gun doesn't fire even though he's quite obviously expecting it to. He then props it "barrel up" between his legs so he can look down it while he's driving. I figure the world would have been a bit better off if it had gone off at that moment.

You guys should really check out the site, though... Some pretty funny shit there. The "Oh Noooo" video's probably the funniest...

Mark, do you have more info on that NRA court case? js

Thanks. js