I think they've done it again

product and SmartLinc was stonewalling with the usual ``your wiring is too

I have no doubt that SmartHome and others are smart enough to get free tech help and head off problems by reading this newsgroup from time to time. And that you and Dave and others with obvious technical expertise are heard and have an incremental impact on decisions. And if you actually "closed the loop" by having a conversation with them, the data would seem to be pertain directly to causality.

That is not what I was referring to. I was trying to agree with the part of Dave's comment in the paragraph above the one you (Dan) quote that indicated that comp.home.automation was not important in creating the mass _market_ for INSTEON.

(That comment was accompanied by the implication that this particular individual purchased INSTEON because Dave posted about it which in turn served as the vehicle for yet another ...1,2,3...10; 1,2,3...Ten! . Dave didn't set the price of INSTEON, or write HomeSeer, or build and write ELK controller which _are_ the reasons why this individual purchased INSTEON. )

In general we have no good way of accessing comp.home.automation impact on markets as best I know. There are from time to time some faint return 'signals' such as the Ocelot controllers on sale at eBay that are sold and described by homeowners as never having been used (What do you do with an Ocelot if you don't program?) but hardly definitive.

My environmental advocacy work involves trying to teach non-scientists to respect data and not to exaggerate or embellish, while not hesitating to use the sparse data that we do have.

Folks that can understand these two favorite assertions in context with each other

"No data is better than bad data", and

"One data point is infinitely better than no data point"

are at least on the right track in my opinion. Unfortunately we sometimes 'create' bad (qualitative) data here in comp.home.automation which is constitutionally anathema to me (hence my reaction to demonstrably false statements).

my 20 mils ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

I have no doubt that SmartLabs/Smarthome at least used to read this newsgroup. They may even be sanitizing the record (I dunno, but have no other explanation to the seemingly missing archive as described below. Perhaps someone else does. perhaps I'm just typing something wrong.) See Dan's comment above about the "availability of archives".

The following original post by Smarthome and my response can no longer be Googled up as a comp.home.automation Google groups as best I can determine, although I have complete copies with all headers in my archives and a mirrored version (appended below my signature) is still in google's cache for integrate-oz,net :

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:QLfLPzJpSIIJ:

If I were Smarthome manager, I wouldn't want staff post>There were minor revisions to their SDK license after my grousing here.

Folks who belong to the INSTEON developer forum at

If one only has two data points, there is only one line that can be drawn between points. If one purposely avoids getting more data, one effectively avoids achieving a usefully accurate answer.

A SmartLabs rep emailed and followed up with a phone call when I didn't respond. We had a pleasant 1-minute conversation, apparently useful to both of us, in which I responded that I was holding off work on INSTEON in anticipation of future SDM (driver) releases. He probably just metaphorically put another check-mark in the column for a (presumably common) response. A 'vote' if you will, but certainly not directly causal of anything by itself.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Systems Integration Forum > Usenet > comp.home.automation INSTEON dimmers can respond to both X-10 and INSTEON commands User Name Remember Me? Password Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

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#1 30-07-2005, 02:31 AM snipped-for-privacy@smarthome.com Guest Posts: n/a INSTEON dimmers can respond to both X-10 and INSTEON commands

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Once enrolled, it will respond to both. INSTEON was designed to be affordable, simple, reliable AND compatable with X-10.

snipped-for-privacy@smarthome.com

#2 30-07-2005, 08:38 AM Marc F Hult Guest Posts: n/a Re: INSTEON dimmers can respond to both X-10 and INSTEON commands

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But is it also _compatible_ with X-10 ?

We know what "compatable" portends ...;-)

Marc Marc_F_Hult

Marc F Hult « Previous Thread | Next Thread »

| >| (FWIW, I think some folks have an inflated view of the impact of | >| comp.home.automation. This is jist my impression because I don't | >| actually have any data. I am particularly skeptical of _post hoc ergo | >| propter hoc_causal relations that I often read about in this newsgroup. | >

| >I don't know. Back when I was trying to use the original SwitchLinc | product and SmartLinc was stonewalling with the usual ``your wiring is too | >noisy'' line, a posting to comp.home.automation with some speculation on | >the nature of the bugs actually provoked a phone call from someone | >claiming to be in the development department at SmartLinc. Granted it | >turned out that their real motivation was to prevent (or at least delay) | >me from posting a more complete description of the problems, but they | >certainly reacted. | >

| >Similarly, years earlier a posting in comp.dcom.telecom about bugs in | >a Vive caller ID box provoked a response from (IIRC) the president after | >it was somehow brought to the company's attention. Of course, the purpose | >of the response was mainly to attempt to deflect the criticism and confuse | >the issue. | >

| >Hmm, maybe these examples support your thesis that there isn't much | >impact. :) But it may be a good way to get the attention of otherwise | >unresponsive companies, and the availability of archives has made it | >much more difficult for those companies to use the, ``nobody else is | >having that problem'' excuse... | >

| | I have no doubt that SmartHome and others are smart enough to get free tech | help and head off problems by reading this newsgroup from time to time. And | that you and Dave and others with obvious technical expertise are heard and | have an incremental impact on decisions. And if you actually "closed the | loop" by having a conversation with them, the data would seem to be pertain | directly to causality.

Yes, they specifically mentioned reading my posting, so I know that's why they called. Curiously, they had no record at all of my prior calls and email about the problem. So perhaps they pay more attention to the net than to direct customer contact. :) I just remembered another call I received in response to a posting, this time about about Enerzone:

| That is not what I was referring to. I was trying to agree with the part of | Dave's comment in the paragraph above the one you (Dan) quote that | indicated that comp.home.automation was not important in creating the mass | _market_ for INSTEON.

I think that the nature of USENET (and of people in general) makes it more important to _destroying_ a mass market than to creating one. :) USENET is not a very good advertising medium (yet) but it's a great way to spread the word about negative experiences...

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

Related to our being heard here, about 4 years ago I posted about problems I was having with a KSUless phone system from TMC. Although their tech support initially told me there was nothing they could do, the owner of the company read my posts here and not only got the problem fixed but added other features on my wish list and sent me new firmware for all the phones. Since then the phones are serving me well, have no problems at all and I've recommended them to others. A win-win for me and the manufacturer.