Win xp sp2 firewall

Now it doesn't sound good anymore. Well, when we're discussing security issue, you should stop avoiding to tell about the negative aspects.

What, like your negative lip service. Who is us? Are you tossing someone's salad in the NG to be saying the word *US*. I wouldn't put it pass you.

In case you missed it.

Like I told you before, if the Sun was out, it was beautiful clear blue sunny day and about 75 degree, you would crawl out form under your rock and spit at it and crawl back under the rock.

Then you really don't understand my position at all. I "prefer" that all users become educated, that the OS is secured, that the apps work without needing Admin level status, that there is world peace..... Until that happens I see the need for PFW solutions that are better than the windows firewall.

Looking for it is easy, all you have to do is look.

The PFW "solutions" you propose will not only *not* help with changing the status quo, instead they will further establish it. Which makes them counter-productive.

cu

You do realize that looking for something and actually finding it are two different things, don't you?

cu

Not in my experience with ignorant users, not in my experience with typical non-ignorant users, not im my experience with anyone.

So after your installation of a PFW, what encourages them to switch to a limited user account? What encourages them to put pressure on vendors?

When they get to the point of a PFW after having their machine cleaned or wiped/restored, they use the Better PFW to stay clean and they have two accounts "FULL" and "LIMITED" and are instructed to only use the "FULL" to install software or to run apps that won't run under limited....

As for contacting the software vendors - we'll, once they start using a limited account and see how much doesn't work as a non-admin, I can't tell if anyone complains to the vendors.

What I can say is that they don't appear to be compromised again and that they don't appear to have the same types of problems, so, a little education combinded with a better firewall solution seems to work well.

In that scenario the Windows-Firewall will work just fine. No need at all to install rootkits on the computer.

cu

In your limited exposure to people that are ignorant you must not see how people still using the Windows XP firewall are still compromised because they don't actually follow the above all the time.

You must have some serious delusion that people always do the right thing, that they always obey the rules and security norms, that they just do what you tell them all the time - it's just not true.

Then noone explained it to them properly. And: they are compromised regardless whether they use the XP firewall or a PFW. The "outbound protection" of the PFW does not protect the computer from infection. The "outbound protection" is only the sign that the computer is infected (by stupid malware). But in my experience it is due to this "outbound protection" (and because it is called "protection") people think the problem is under control. They think their PFW has prevented something really bad and the PFW has the problem under control. For that reason they think they can just continue. They don't accept the necessary consequences (reformat). They look for some tools in the internet how to remove this malware and eventually believe one of the five tools installed did actually remove it. Well, at least the PFW does not report anything anymore. Until the next time. And again, and again, and again. Usually in the process of removing the malware they install even worse malware which pretends to remove the other malware... After a while the PFW does not report anything anymore but the computer is slooow.

The important thing here is in my experience: all of those people thought there is nothing more they could do. It is just happens. Computers get infected by viruses just like human beings catch a cold. They accept it as a "law of nature". Noone ever simply accepted the fact that in the beginning it was them who installed some creepy software and started it all. Because they "successfully" removed the malware and the PFW did not report anything anymore after the removal they think their computer is clean. The one problem reported does not occur anymore. The PFW does not report anything anymore (for some time). Their conclusion is: the computer is clean.

After the second time, you reformat their harddisc, reinstall an image, loosing all e-mails and documents on the computer, they are learning. Once the computer becomes important in any way to them they are open to learn...

The only people I know that don't obey the "rules" are those you know that they don't obey them and they don't care. They want to install any junk advertised in any spam mail they have received. They don't really care how many viruses they have on their computer. They need a zoo of security software to keep the problems low until they themselves reinstall an image.

Gerald