I was told something that I find hard to believe: Supposedly Vonage and the other VoIP telcos perform a traceroute and if they determine that the SIP phone's IP address is outside the US (and that's VERY hard to determine), then the service is not provided.
Any truth to that?
-Ramon
It is not difficult to tell what country you are in based on your IP address. However, Vonage does not restrict on this basis. There are other concerns though, here is an FAQ from vonage:
Hope that helps,
Jim
In article , Scooby wrote: :It is not difficult to tell what country you are in based on your IP :address.
Well, in about the same sense that the Sun is not "mildly warm".
In the general case, it not possible to tell what country you are in based on your IP address.
When I go and visit my relatives in the USA, and I dial up work (in Canada), and perform activities from behind our NAT'ing firewall, then exactly what mechanism exists that can not only bypass our firewall to get information, but can also tell from the IP address alone whether I'm dialing up work from Alberta or Alabama or Albania ?
On 04.07.2005 20:50 Walter Roberson wrote
You can ...
... as IP wise it doesn't matter where you physically are. "Your" are always from CA.
And in the general case the IP's location is identical to where the person really is.
The real trick of all these geolocation software is to map the ISP's assigned blocks to locations.
Arnold
In article , Arnold Nipper wrote: :On 04.07.2005 20:50 Walter Roberson wrote
:> In the general case, it not possible to tell what country you are :> in based on your IP address.
:You can ...
:... as IP wise it doesn't matter where you physically are. "Your" are :always from CA.
Which country you are physically in *does* matter in some cases. Cryptography export laws. Censorship laws. Laws that determine which country has jurisdiction in a civil suit over credit card purchases. Defamation laws. Copyright laws. Tax and duty laws. Database / site access which must be free to residents of one country because of government funding, but residents of other countries must pay a fee...
:And in the general case the IP's location is identical to where the :person really is.
One's IP address at best narrows down the location of the interface between the public network and the private network that one is using.
On 05.07.2005 00:03 Walter Roberson wrote
Which is quite perfect for most of the companies interested in locating you.
Arnold
In article , Arnold Nipper wrote: :On 05.07.2005 00:03 Walter Roberson wrote
:> One's IP address at best narrows down the location of the interface :> between the public network and the private network that one is using.
:Which is quite perfect for most of the companies interested in locating you.
Scooby wrote:
There is a large difference between saying that it is "not difficult" to tell what country you are in, and saying that one can get close enough for "most of the companies interested in locating you."
If I contend that it is difficult to factor a number which is the product of two large primes, then an appropriate response from you would not be "But most numbers are divisible by 2, 3, or 5, which is good enough for most people interested in factoring numbers."
On 05.07.2005 01:32 Walter Roberson wrote
Nobody said it's the same. So what's your point?
Arnold
Okay, let me rephrase my response.... It is not difficult to tell what country an originating IP is in. It was just a general response to a general question. If a telco were to try and restrict based on this information, it is a fairly simple task.
You are correct in saying that it is possible to circumvent their logic through vpn's and dialup. However, it is then you that would be breaking the EULA or laws. I think the point here is that it only seems to be illegal in some areas. Vonage does not make that distinction, but rather puts the responsibility on the end user.
I will say this... It is very possible that if you are going through the trouble of using vpn from a distant country, you may totally destroy any sound quality. Consider that you have distance latency, plus vpn overhead from there to the States, then back out to the remote location (possibly back overseas). It could be a horrible connection - there are better alternatives for people just looking for free/cheap voip.
Jim
In article , Scooby wrote: :Okay, let me rephrase my response.... It is not difficult to tell what :country an originating IP is in.
And I still say that it is sometimes *impossible* to determine which country an originating IP is in. Don't confuse registrar and physical location of the person responsible for the traffic.
: It was just a general response to a :general question. If a telco were to try and restrict based on this :information, it is a fairly simple task.
A telco (or anyone else) would be able to restrict based on "guestimates" of where the IP is, but not upon where the IP *really* is.
:You are correct in saying that it is possible to circumvent their logic :through vpn's and dialup. However, it is then you that would be breaking :the EULA or laws.
Read it in reverse: there are cases in which if I am in a particular country, it is legally necessary to grant me access to material, but that providers that rely on (necessarily) inaccurate information about where my IP is may block me because they think I'm elsewhere. The blocker is then breaking the rule or contract or law by denying access based upon information that they *know* cannot be completely accurate.
On 05.07.2005 23:57 Walter Roberson wrote
It's always possible to determine. At least the IP owner can.
Usually there is far more information around. Geolocation has become a real industry.
Are talking about theory or real life? Maybe you could give a real life example.
Arnold
In article , Arnold Nipper wrote: :On 05.07.2005 23:57 Walter Roberson wrote
:> And I still say that it is sometimes *impossible* to determine which :> country an originating IP is in.
:It's always possible to determine. At least the IP owner can.
Nope. My partner's mobile phone has modem capabilities. I can be most anywhere in North America and dial up through work and the same phone number would show up. Show up, that is, if we got a court order of a Pen Trace against ourselves, since we don't have calling number display on our decade-old modems, and since calling number is easily blocked.
After we got the Pen Trace, we could then proceed to a court order against the cell phone company ording the triangulation records so as to determine where the cell phone was during the call. But the cell carrier isn't the IP owner, and we can't just -ask- the cell carrier... Thus it is false that the IP owner can always determine the origin of the IP.
Now toss in the various services that offer network to dialout [and hence to dialup], including not only the VOIP providers but also the packet radio gateways. The person who initiated the connection might not even be on the same continent as the IP address owner's office.
Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.