Re: Remember : Cisco or not, might be too old to roll...

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>From: Bud >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 08:33:36 -0400 >Subject: Re: Remember : Cisco or not, might be too old to roll... >To: >Let's see, me 45 and just getting certs. Boss hired a "kid" 19, >couldn't even format a disk from a command prompt, heck, didn't even >know what a command prompt was. And this kid had 4 years of cicso >training, as well as compter intensive classes. > >I won't even go into his inability to follow thru on something as >simple as adding a local printer. > >Nope, the younger age doesn't count. No experience in the real world. >And, it appears from the original poster, no idea of what a mentor can >do. Give me the older guy any day. At least I can count on knowledge >from many different areas of life, not just school. > >Bud >> >> >> >>>> >>Paulo, >> >>You understand exactly what is going on. What the older generation >>must realize is that too many things are going on in life that it is >>impossible to keep up with the kids that have the time to understand >>the latest and greatest technologies. What the "Elders" (God, I hate >>to say that!) must comprehend is that we do have life's experiences >>("experiences" being the operative word) to stay in the industry, but >>only in a business perspective. >> >>For example, and nothing against the younger of course, but the way I >>think and the manner in which I can set an example and accomplish >>tasks, I would be well suited towards management and have had an offer >>just lately, which for me would be the first time "out of the >>completely technical realm". Right now, it is the only way a guy 40 or >>older can exist in the industry. > >The worst thing anyone at any age can do is limit themselves...the >second worst is to greatly overestimate one's capabilities. What does >that mean? > >Let's talk older folks. Those who give up, those who don't try, and >those who think they are good enough without trying to keep pace, who >think their past performance will sustain them, will fail. > >Let's talk younger people. I was young once (I think), and I now have >kids, so I can see it from 2 perspectives. When I was the age of my >kids, I could play several musical instruments passingly, and could >get a tune out of just about anything, and would practice for 1-2 >hours a day, sometimes more. My kids...can't put in the time, too many >distractions, etc. It's part of the modern busy time we live in, it's >not their fault. When I was a kid, I had to make my own bow and >arrows, for crying out loud. I know it depends on where you live in >the world, etc, but there it is. If people are going to toss in the >towel every time something is a bit of a drag (there, that's an old >60's expression!), what will they ever accomplish? > >Another thing...math. Yes, math. What describes the way signals act on >a transmission medium? Why, some of the dandiest math you ever saw in >your life. There may be a time in the foreseeable future when we are >dumbed down so much that any high-level math will be irrelevant, but >when? It's still a good idea to be prepared, and then, when math does >become irrelevant, forget about it. That's what housewives of the 50's >and 60's mainly did, instead of becoming engineers, right? :-) > >Bernie was right about the communications element, but I'll put math a >close second if you want to go anywhere in high-technology. A >mathematical mind makes everything easier to grasp. > >Well, that's all for me. :-) > >Tom > >> >>>Being 16 i do think he has some point as even if younger kids dont have >>>as >>>much experience they >>>woul;d rather haev them working as they can train them into the company >>>and >>>keep them for a much >>>longer tim than maybe someone older. I mean a 24 year old is expected to >>>have a much longer time in >>>a company then amybe somen whos 45 as you mentioned. I also think they >>>look >>>for younger people >>>because of the market as technology is moving so fast and the younger >>>generation seem to take an interest >>>at such a young age and if alot of people are like me right now i tend to >>>try and learn about anything new going >>>on in technology and networking. >>>Paulo

I'm in the same boat. I tried to make the jump from shipping clerk to IT pro. I dove back into college, and got my degree (magna cum laude) just before my 40th birthday. I then moved to Germany (for family reasons). I thought that companies would jump at the chance to hire me. Little did I realize. Every third job listing states age requirements (the vast majority not older than 35). I'm studying for certs left and right, but nothing seems to do any good. I've had a total of two interviews in the last year. I've probably sent a good 500 CVs out. My attitude is to never give up -- which is my main strength, AND my biggest curse. When I get a rejection, I send two more out. All this does is cause my downward spiral to accelerate exponentially.

I'm now 43 years old. How do I make a better life for myself when I put all I have into it and still come up empty? I busted my hump, and all I have to show for it is a pretty diploma, some certs, and about $30,000 of student loans. I have no idea what to do.

Mike

Reply to
Mike T.
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Tom,

Sounds like you are in a difficult situation, but there are a few things you may want to do.

1) Although this is probably not practical, I'd look at getting out of Germany and temporarily relocating to a country where they are legally unable to discriminate on the basis of age. In Australia, for example, you aren't expected to put your age on a resume (though its usually not too difficult work out what age somebody is by their resume). The aim of a resume is to get to interview. If you don't get to interview, you can't sell yourself.

2) More practically, sit down and do a really deep audit of your existing skills. Look at what you have learnt from your previous career and modularize your abilities and knowledge into transferable skills. Although you are new to IT, you are not new to the workforce. Reconstruct your resume for every job you apply for and for every company you approach.

3) Relise that only 25% of jobs are formally advertised, and that IT the percentage is even lower. Join the local professional society. Attend every single vendor/reseller event you can find. Join a user group. You need those professional contacts to get a foot in the door.

Rather than beating yourself up, change your tactics.

I know most of the above sounds like standard stuff, but it actually works, and its amazing how many people DON'T do this. Career advancement or change needs to be treated like any other professional task. Plan, plan, plan, execute.

I'm only in my mid 30s, but I've made some non-linear shifts (from Academia to IT support to IT architecture and now into project management), spanning two languages (only one that I was born with), two countries and four cities.

Goof Luck!

Mike T. wrote:

Reply to
yamahasw40

When I'm looking for fresh graduates I choose from a hundred resumes. That said, a degree plus certification merits an interview.

Wow, I can't believe that. In America, that's totally illegal.

Good luck, Mike. Yamaha had some decent suggestions.

Reply to
hb350001

Hideous.

I'm about to turn 33 and as a purely technical guy I might have to face that pretty soon I'm going to have the same troubles. I even turned down opportunities to get into management because I know I would hate it.

It's hard to believe sometimes I've been doing IT for 10 years. Maybe it's time to start that emu farm.

Reply to
Clayton

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