Can my employer "hear" my SKYPE phone calls

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:08:26 GMT, Susan wrote (in part):

I don't know where you are (and don't need to), but in California they've gotten the pay-phone situation sorted out such that you can plunk in 50 cents and talk locally for unlimited time. You might be able to find a pay phone near work that you can use on your lunch hour, call your friend collect, and settle up when you are able to get together. In that case, you wouldn't need to carry a lot of coins.

It's not a very convenient method, but it should work.

I presume that writing letters on paper and exchanging them via snail mail would /not/ work?

Just pointing out some alternatives.

Chris

Reply to
Christopher P. Winter
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He likely went here:

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Reply to
Jim Holcomb

He doesn't *supposedly* know it, he does know it, and you just confirmed that you once worked there.

If you're so concerned about privacy, you should have considered that your email address is traceable.

Now, if your spouse decides to google you, he's going to know all about what you're up to, as will your employer.

Bad luck, that.

rl

Reply to
Rhonda Lea Kirk

I think he was just showing you that "anonymous" died a long time ago.

Reply to
Al Klein

I like my privacy too. It just doesn't really exist any more unless we are talking about a fact-to-face chat. The problem is that all the call data is being collected and anyone that badly wants access can get it by subpoenaing the appropriate phone companies.

Personally, I just use normal unencrypted voip between two voip phones, but then I don't have to worry about some employer objecting to the slightly increased network usage.

-wolfgang

Reply to
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht

Hi Jeremy,

You seem to be a rare voice of technical reason here. Instead of going into the easy moralification of personal issues (which is trivially easy to pontify cowardly from behind the moral safety of a computer keyboard), you provide sensible answers to the purely technical questions of enhancing privacy in personal communications.

I'm appalled at how much is known about me (things I've forgotten about even) from people I don't even know.

May I ask is whether I can post to this newsgroup more privately. Apparently there is a record stored of my posts even ten years ago.

Is there a way to post to the usenet such that my posts aren't traceable back to me ten years later? Is there some freeware that will "anonymize" my email address (I'm not worried about my first name, which is a nickname anyway but I want to anonymize my email address and IP).

Thank you in advance, Susan

Reply to
Susan

Is this all you can offer to the technical discussion of securing a modicum of privacy in Internet voice over IP communications?

Susan

Reply to
Susan

Even ten years ago you could use a proxy to post through, but the proxy has your identity in most cases. So, while you can "appear" to be anonymous, if you were posting, as many have found, you can't really be anonymous, but you can get close.

Reply to
Leythos

In a word: Yes.

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You will not be able to pick your own name--they will assign one of several that they use--but you CAN post anonymously and you can receive replies via the newsgroup you posted in.

No software is required--it works through your browser.

There are other options available to you, but this one is by far the simplest. And you do not have to sign up with them, so there is no record of who the originating poster is.

I also recommend

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to keep your ISP from knowing where you browse. They cannot turn over your records to anyone if they do not exist. The service costs $30/year and it also filters out lots of malware from downloading into your computer. I've used it for years, and wouldn't be without it.

Reply to
jeremy

Susan said

I use COTSE (cotse.net). URL:

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alt.cotse

I have XNEWS set up to post responses (like this) through their remailer. It's totally painless and quite private.

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I do this on a group by group basis. So some groups list me fake name and valid IP. Others (like this group) get my other fake name (:-]) and no IP.

"I" don't even know who I am anymore. ;-)

You can also use QuickSilver for free. But the COTSE remailer is less hassle.

Joe Smith III

-=- This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.

Reply to
JoeSmithIII

Especially when they don't munge their email addresses on usenet.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

You are not entitled to privacy whilst using your employer's equipment and bandwidth.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:51:32 +0100, Ivor Jones wrote:

In line with the claims of its creators, Skype appears to encrypt or otherwise scramble information that is transmitted over the Internet. Although it is generally accepted that Skype is secure against casual snooping, it is not clear how it would fare against sophisticated attackers.

The security of any data sent over an encrypted connection depends upon many factors, including the specific encryption algorithms used and how encryption keys are chosen or exchanged (known as key management). Also of critical importance is the protocol that employs the algorithms, and how well both the algorithms and protocols are implemented. An analysis of the packets sent between Skype clients indicates that a combination of protocols appear to be used for actions such registering oneself on the network, searching for other participants, or making a voice telephone call.

Skype claims that its system employs RSAÿs encryption for key exchange and

256-bit AES as its bulk encryption algorithm. However, Skype does not publish its key exchange algorithm or its over-the-wire protocol. Despite repeated requests, Skype refuses to explain the underlying design of its certificates, authentication system, or encryption implementation. It is therefore impossible to validate the company's claims regarding encryption. A poor implementation of the RSA algorithm could provide encryption, but no actual security.

In order to avoid detection, many peer-to-peer applications, including Skype, change the port that they use each time they start. Consequently, there is no standard "Skype port" like there is a "SIP port" or "SMTP port". In addition, Skype is particularly adept at port-hopping with the aim of traversing enterprise firewalls. Entering via UDP, TCP, or even TCP on port 80, Skype is usually very successful at passing typical firewalls. Once inside, it then intentionally connects to other Skype clients and remains connected, maintaining a ´virtual circuit¡. If one of those clients happens to be infected, then the machines that connect to it can be infected with no protection from the firewall. Moreover, because Skype has the ability to port-hop, it is much harder to detect anomalous behavior or configure network security devices to block the spread of the infection.

Like its file sharing predecessor Kazaa, Skype employs an overlay peer-to-peer network. There are two types of nodes in this overlay network, ordinary hosts and super nodes. An ordinary host is a Skype application that can be used to place voice calls, send text messages, etc. A super node is an ordinary hostÿs end-point on the Skype network, meaning that any ordinary host must first connect to a super node and authenticate itself with the Skype login server. Any node with a public IP address having sufficient CPU, memory, and network bandwidth is a candidate to become a super node - including machines that reside on enterprise networks. Because Skype super nodes are created dynamically, and could conceivably consume as much bandwidth as is available to them, enterprise IT managers consider these super nodes a significant risk to the health of their network.

Privacy and Authenticity

When you initiate a Skype conversation, how sure are you that you are actually reaching the user that you specified? Every Skype user has a username and a password. It appears that the network is used by Skype to perform username/password verification, but it isnÿt clear how this is done. For example, hosts on the Skype network could relay the encrypted username/password combination back to Skypeÿs servers for approval. Alternatively, they could relay an unencrypted username/password combination. If the Skype network is indeed involved in the communications, several types of attacks may be possible:

A malicious Skype client may learn the username/password combination of registered Skype users;

If a Skype user accesses the Skype network through a malicious Internet Service Provider, the ISP may direct that userÿs Skype communications to the malicious Skype node. Thus, it may be possible for a malicious ISP to learn any of their userÿs Skype passwords;

A malicious node may fake a valid authentication, allowing a client to log in with a particular Skype username even though the password for that username is not known.

When using Skype as a voice communications system, its users can often rely on identifying a person by the sound of their voice. This layer is absent, however, if Skype is used only for text messaging and exchanging files. These challenges are forcing carriers to look for accurate ways to detect Skype (and other P2P protocols). In some cases the telecom Marketing departments are highly interested in what percentage of their customers are using Skype so that they can decide whether or not to launch their own commercial VoIP service. In other cases, unpredictable bandwidth consumption and security issues are concerning enterprise IT managers- the customers of the telecom carrier. Many of these enterprise IT managers are responding by requiring that the carrier actually block Skype traffic before it hits their private networks.

Challenges In Detection of Skype Traffic

In general, effective Internet traffic detection and classification requires three key elements:

1.Accuracy: the technique should have low false positive (identifying other protocols as targeted protocol X); 2.Scalability: the technique must be able to process large traffic volumes in the order of several hundred thousands to several million connections at a time, with good accuracy, and yet not be computationally expensive; 3.Robustness: traffic measurement in the middle of the network has to deal with the effects of asymmetric routing (two directions of a connection follow different paths), packet losses and reordering.

There are usually tradeoffs in terms of the level of accuracy, scalability and robustness that can be achieved relative to the detection of any given protocol or service.

One current classification practice consists of TCP/UDP port number application identification using known TCP/UDP port numbers to identify traffic flows. This method is highly scalable since only the TCP/UDP port numbers must be recorded to identify a particular application. It is also highly robust since a single packet is sufficient to make a successful identification. Unfortunately port number-based identification is increasingly inaccurate primarily due to the fact that P2P networks tend to intentionally disguise their generated traffic in order to circumvent filtering firewalls (as well as legal issues associated with organizations like the Recording Industry Association of America). Most P2P networks now operate on top of custom-designed proprietary protocols and their clients can easily operate on any port number - even HTTPÿs port 80, making port-based detection schemes incapable of accurate and robust classification of Internet protocols.

To overcome the issues with port-based detection, a new technique has emerged based on payload-signature methods. Using this technique,that processes packet payloads for patterns or signatures that univocally identify any given protocol. One challenge facing payload-signature techniques on telecom networks is the high speed at which such pattern matching algorithms must be executed, e.g. 2.5Gbps (OC48) and above. It is therefore critical to design algorithms that can efficiently perform pattern matching while simultaneously dealing with memory and CPU limitations. Another key challenge is the lack of openly available, reliable protocol specifications. This is partially due to developmental history and partially a result of the proprietary nature of many protocols. For example, most P2P protocols are both proprietary and constantly evolving. Some of these (Gnutella for instance) provide some documentation, but it is often incomplete, or not up-to-date. To make matters worse, there are various implementations of Gnutella clients, some of which do not comply with the specifications in the documentation (raising potential inter-operability issues). For application detection and classification to be accurate, it is important to identify signatures that span all the variants (or at least the dominantly used ones). However, it is increasingly common to see new applications (such as Skype or GCN) employing 128-bit or 256-bit encryption techniques to defend the privacy of the information exchanged between their users. As a consequence, the payload-signature method fails when traffic is encrypted, because the signatures in the packet payload are scrambled by the encryption.

Skype offers a combination of challenges that make it notoriously difficult to detect with scalable, accurate algorithms:

The Skype agent does not run on any standard source port. Skype randomly selects a source port for the agent to run on, then communicates via either TCP or UDP, or both. The choice of the protocol that Skype uses depends on whether the agent is behind a proxy/NAT or has a public IP address. The destination IP addresses are not the same every time Skype runs, and the destination port numbers are also not standard.

All communication via Skype is encrypted. This also means that phone numbers called (SkypeOut) or other data are also encrypted. In many cases, there is no direct communication between end users in Skype. All communication passes through intermediate nodes, and these nodes may be different for every call.

Skype is a peer-to-peer protocol, which means that the peers (IP addresses) to which a Skype agent connects are many and the network is very dynamic, so these peers (and thus their IP addresses) keep changing.

Skype provides voice, chat, file transfer and video services. It appears that all of these services are passed together, making it difficult to separate out voice, from chat, from video, etc.

To accurately detect and classify these unfriendly applications, it is necessary to provide a systematic methodology that overcomes the lack of well-known port numbers or user payload signatures. Instead, any new methodology should analyze flow connections at the transport layer (Layer

4) to extract and profile key features from the packet streams processed. Such a method could be referred to as ´classification in the dark¡.
Reply to
Sue

Yes. Modicum of privacy is bullshit. You're expecting to abuse your employer's time and network so you can engage in a clandestine relationship. Wake up, and get back to work before you get fired and/or ruin the lives of everyone unfortunate enough to be tangled up in your mess.

Reply to
Bill Kearney

[snip]

Irrelevant.

You are not entitled to privacy whilst using your employer's equipment and bandwidth.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

That really depends on where you live. You may not, and if not, I do feel sorry for you.

Reply to
DevilsPGD
[snip]

It depends on nothing. Your employer is paying for the equipment and bandwidth; what makes you think you are entitled to any degree of privacy whatever whilst using it for purposes unrelated to your employment..?

I don't need you to feel sorry for me, I do not consider the above to be unfair. If you want to feel sorry for someone, do so for those who are having to pay people while they aren't working.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

Well, the law in many jurisdictions would not agree. Regardless of who paid for the equipment, the user may still have rights.

Well, my employee handbook specifically states that during my lunch, break, before and after work, and during other appropriate times (as determined by my immediate supervisor) I may use company phones for non-billable calls, and use the company PC for personal activities, as long as those activities do not interfere with corporate activities.

We're also allowed to use the chairs to sit on during our breaks, the lights to read a book during our breaks, the filtered and air conditioned air to breath during our off hours.

*shrugs* I have an employer that realizes that happy employees are productive employees. My employer shut down early last Friday to take the entire group out on the lake, including supplying food and drink.

In December, the whole company is being flown to Vegas for a vacation.

This weekend, the entire technical support staff volunteered (not "was encouraged to volunteer because otherwise we'd lose our jobs", but honest-to-god offered) to come in and get us caught up because we're backlogged.

It trickles down -- You treat me like a human, with respect, and let me enjoy my work, I'll go above and beyond as well.

Counter that with my previous employer, call center position who one day decided that even if you're late leaving for a break you have to be back on time. I went to my manager and asked if we were supposed to place the customer on hold when our breaks start, transfer the call back into the queue, or hang up on them -- If an employer pushes, the employees push back and in the end, all it does is hurt the customer.

As I said, if your employer treats you like a liability rather then an asset, I feel sorry for you.

Reply to
DevilsPGD

To steal bandwidth..? Hmm, ok.

Well good for you, but don't assume that everyone else worldwide has those rights.

By the way, who do you think is paying for all this..? Ask your customers if they're happy to fund your off-duty activities.

Ivor

Reply to
Ivor Jones

I don't -- I expressed sympathy for those who don't.

Actually, I am.

When we get to use phones and computers for non-job-related activities, it's to help keep our employees happy.

When our entire on-site group comes in on a weekend, without pay, because we're backlogged, it's to help keep our customers happy. We do it because we, as employees, are satisfied.

What cost do our customers (or does my employer) pay when I make a local call from my office phone on my lunch break, or when I surf the web either during off hours? (and before you answer, be aware that we had an unmetered DS3 at the old location, and unmetered T1s now until we can get a DS3 into this office)

Reply to
DevilsPGD

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