Up in An Attic In August in Yuma Arizona

LOL What's the matter Bob?? Don't have memories or nightmares?? I assume it was a little warm out there in the desert?? :-)

Had a upgrade I started last Wednesday. Started by locating the EOL's and ID'ing cables. System installed in 1994 by somebody else. Was hoping to finish by the end of the day. Then I was searching for the EOL for the Heat Detector Loop. I checked them all on the main floor. No EOL?? Then I realized there must be a Heat in the attic. Found the hatch and just stuck my head up to take a peak. YUP!! there it was about 9 feet off the floor. Temp in attic was easily 95++ deg F. It was then I decided to go home and cool down. Went back on Saturday morning at about 8:30am. First thing was replacing EOL. The attic temp was about 74 deg F.

Now maybe 20 years ago it might have been different. I know some guys just don't sweat regardless of the temp. Don't know how it is possible but maybe they are born without sweat glands.

And yes, I know the temps above are frigid for some, but, for me, easily reaches my max. I am sure I have just added some fire to the thread. No pun intended..................

It is good to know that you survived the day and have returned to ASA.

Stay cool out there!!

Les

Come to Texas and see what I went through, and Florida

Come to Texas and see what I went through, and Florida

********** Just look at the high temps across the country. Its not usually in Texas or Florida. Now the humidity in those places is killer, but I've measured temps in attics here close to 160F. Yes. Properly cooked meat temperatures. Yes, actually took a meat thermometer into the attic and left it set for a few minutes. Mine wasn't that bad, but it was hot. I just haven't done it for a while. I forgot how hot it used to be. I'm telling my wife next time we need to run a new cable for something its going to have to wait until January.

That's the way it goes for me.

Attics in the summer. Crawl spaces in the winter.

As bad as Texas attics can be they were nothing compared to Florida houses, low attics and they always had a sunroom with no attic, doors had steel beams above that prevented drilling to the attic, walls of plaster and chicken wire...ugh

And I assume those houses are built on slabs, meaning no basement................ right??

In the northeast we also have very old houses. With full finished attics, basement ceilings covered with drywall, crawl spaces that have little or no access with mud and rocks, walls built with REAL 2" x 4" studs, fire breaks between the wall framing studs that are never at the same level above the floor, full size additions that can't be reached without blasting with a "quarter-stick" or two. Boom!!

Then there is new construction. Always wanted to be the last doing the rough-in. Except you find out that the electrician forgot a piece of romex wire and decided to use your wire holes because it was easier than drilling new holes. Or drilled through a stud into your wires, and made repairs by twisting the colors together and then taping with his black tape roll. Or the Comcast guy that decided to use your pull string for his single RG6 Quad and didn't bother to put the string back, just left it on a pile with his cable. I hope he reads this someday........soon.

Ahhh and so it goes, the trails and tribulations of the low voltage installer..................

Les

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 8:02:07 AM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:

PLUMBERS!!!!!

I have a dream ??????? ?!!!

Now maybe it's just the luck of the draw for me but on more occasions than other trades ?? plumbers I find are the MOST inconsiderate.

Got to sweat a joint near the alarm wires?? NO PROBLEM! Just do it. The wi re insulation wont melt THAT much.

Got to run a pipe through a beam perpendicular to the main alarm wire run i n the basement. NO PROBLEM! Either stretch the wires out of the way until t hey break or there's no way to tell if they're broken under the insulation or not. Or just cut them, drill your hole and run your pipe.

"Because pipe is rigid and wire can be spliced a lot easier than rerouting pipe."

BUT ?? don't bother telling the GC, builder, homeowner. It can wait until the alarm guy comes back to do the final hookup to discover that he's got to add a length a wire between the two cut cable ends of 25 w ires to get around the PVC waste pipe that they forgot to run.

MY Dream ????

I can see myself running a single four wire along a beam in the basement an d low and behold I come to a 4 inch PVC waste pipe running perpendicular to my wire run. So, I get out the ol hack saw, cut out a one foot section of the pipe and continue my nice straight wire run.

YEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!

I just remembered another event that REAAAALLY pissed me off.

Installed an alarm panel on a plywood wall board down in the basement and h ad system operational. Shortly after the job is completed, I get a service call that the alarm system has problems. I go to the job site, down in the basement and find that the telephone installation company needed space and my alarm panel "was in the way". They had dismounted the panel from the boa rd and hung it up by the wires on a nail above the wall board and mounted t he telephone KSU and all the telephone hardware taking up all the space on the wall board. I can't tell you how pissed off I was and was just about re ady to show the business owner what they had done and or call the company b ut ???? somehow my sinister sense took over and I contained my rage. I told the owners that I knew what was wrong and would have to schedule more time to correct the problem. I had to come bac k to put up a new wall board, extend all the wires going to the panel to re ach the new panel location. BUT, when I went home that first day, I went do wn to my grinding wheel and gathered a hand full of metal powder that gets captured in the grinding wheel protectors. When I returned to the job I bro ught the filings. I arranged to work late after the owners left and the las t thing I did before I left was to blow the iron powder on to the printed c ircuit boards in the KSU. I never said a word to the owner or anyone about what they had done. Even though the business owner had to suffer along with them, the Telephone service people spent a small fortune troubleshooting t hat system for months and ultimately found out(Because I eventually found a n opportunity to ask the owners) "We got rid of them. We had continuous pro blems with them so we got someone else." (HE HE HE HEH HEH HEH HEH HA HA HAAH HAAH HAAAaaA) (evil laughter)

YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

On 8/16/2018 7:54 PM, Jim Davis wrote:

??!!!

han other trades ?? plumbers I find are the MOST inconsid erate.

e wire insulation wont melt THAT much.

un in the basement. NO PROBLEM! Either stretch the wires out of the way u ntil they break or there's no way to tell if they're broken under the ins ulation or not. Or just cut them, drill your hole and run your pipe.

It can wait until the alarm guy comes back to do the final hookup to dis cover that he's got to add a length a wire between the two cut cable ends of 25 wires to get around the PVC waste pipe that they forgot to run.

t and low and behold I come to a 4 inch PVC waste pipe running perpendicu lar to my wire run. So, I get out the ol hack saw, cut out a one foot sec tion of the pipe and continue my nice straight wire run.

nd had system operational. Shortly after the job is completed, I get a se rvice call that the alarm system has problems. I go to the job site, down in the basement and find that the telephone installation company needed space and my alarm panel "was in the way". They had dismounted the panel from the board and hung it up by the wires on a nail above the wall board and mounted the telephone KSU and all the telephone hardware taking up a ll the space on the wall board. I can't tell you how pissed off I was and was just about ready to show the business owner what they had done and o r call the company but ???? somehow my si nister sense took over and I contained my rage. I told the owners that I knew what was wrong and would have to schedule more time to correct the problem. I had to come back to put up a new wall board, extend all the wi res going to the panel to reach the new panel location. BUT, when I went home that first day, I went down to my grinding wheel and gathered a hand full of metal powder that gets captured in the grinding wheel protectors . When I returned to the job I brought the filings. I arranged to work late after the owners left and the last thing I did before I left was to blow the iron powder on to the printed circuit boards in the KSU. I never said a word to the owner or anyone about what they had done. Even though the business owner had to suffer along with them, the Telephone service people spent a small fortune troubleshooting that system for months and u ltimately found out(Because I eventually found an opportunity to ask the owners) "We got rid of them. We had continuous problems with them so we g ot someone else."

((( nice touch on the filings) flat soda pop (no co2) can also do wonders to electronics..)))

Just remember plumbers have to pass a final inspection.. there's always a chance that a "small hole" might appear in a vent pipe

that will keep them from getting that "pressure seal" test approved.. Causing them endless hours of checking to fine that leak.. and wouldn't you know it usually turns out to be in the attic under insulation or in a wall cavity....

and electricians also have problems with nicks in "L" wires in metal J-boxes. or missing wire nuts..

Gremlins can run rampant around unfriendly construction sites...

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*

On 8/16/2018 8:54 PM, Jim Davis wrote:

bered another event that REAAAALLY pissed me off.

wn in the basement and had system operational. Shortly after the job is completed, I get a service call that the alarm system has problems. I go to the job site, down in the basement and find that the telephone insta llation company needed space and my alarm panel "was i n the way". They had dismounted the panel from the boa rd and hung it up by the wires on a nail above the wal l board and mounted the telephone KSU and all the tele phone hardware taking up all the space on the wall boa rd. I can't tell you how pissed off I was and was just about ready to show the business owner what they had done and or call the company but ???? somehow my sinister sense took over and I contained my rage. I told the owners that I knew what was wrong and would have to schedule more time to correct the problem. I had to come back to put up a new wall board, extend al l the wires going to the panel to reach the new panel location. BUT, when I went home that first day, I went down to my grinding wheel and gathered a hand full of metal powder that gets captured in the grinding wheel protectors. When I returned to the job I brought the filings. I arranged to work late after the owners left and the last thing I did before I left was to blow th e iron powder on to the printed circuit boards in the KSU. I never said a word to the owner or anyone about what they had done. Even though the business owner had to suffer along with them, the Telephone service peop le spent a small fortune troubleshooting that system f or months and ultimately found out(Because I eventuall y found an opportunity to ask the owners) "We got rid of them. We had continuous problems with them so we go t someone else."

HAAH HAAH HAAAaaA) (evil laughter)

SSSSSSSSSS!!!!

WOW!! That would be one of those st ories that I would have kept to myself. Although I w ould not have came up with the grinding powder. Thank s for sharing.................. I think.............

A number of years ago I did a rough in on job easily 75 miles out. The building owner told the GC to gut out the utility space of any old "wiring". So he did and cut off my bundle of 26 cables.(2c/4c)

Got a c all from the GC the next day embarrassingly explaining what he had done. He did not realize until after he cut the cables off at the ceiling that these were "n ew" cables. After a few minutes of me pulling myself off the floor and wiping tears from my eyes. He said he would pull all NEW cables for me and remove all th e short runs. When I went back to finish the install all was as if it never happened and was just as I ha d left weeks before. Clean and neat.

You don't fin d guys like that too often. Super special!!

Les

Les

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 8:08:03 AM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:

nd had system operational. Shortly after the job is completed, I get a serv ice call that the alarm system has problems. I go to the job site, down in the basement and find that the telephone installation company needed space and my alarm panel "was in the way". They had dismounted the panel from the board and hung it up by the wires on a nail above the wall board and mount ed the telephone KSU and all the telephone hardware taking up all the space on the wall board. I can't tell you how pissed off I was and was just abou t ready to show the business owner what they had done and or call the compa ny but ???? somehow my sinister sense took over and I contained my rage. I told the owners that I knew what was wrong and would have to schedule more time to correct the problem. I had to come back to put up a new wall board, extend all the wires going to the panel t o reach the new panel location. BUT, when I went home that first day, I wen t down to my grinding wheel and gathered a hand full of metal powder that g ets captured in the grinding wheel protectors. When I returned to the job I brought the filings. I arranged to work late after the owners left and the last thing I did before I left was to blow the iron powder on to the print ed circuit boards in the KSU. I never said a word to the owner or anyone ab out what they had done. Even though the business owner had to suffer along with them, the Telephone service people spent a small fortune troubleshooti ng that system for months and ultimately found out(Because I eventually fou nd an opportunity to ask the owners) "We got rid of them. We had continuous problems with them so we got someone else."

Hey, that's not fair.

I can't think of any "nice" stories.

But, ?.. then again,.... I live in New York.

I mean, I notice that you're not saying that you've actually done anything like you describe however, it seems to me that you're being preeeetttty daa aammmmnnn detailed. Ya know??? ?. like you've REEEEEEaly put a lot of thought into it. Ya know what I'm sayin?? (wink-wink)

I wouldn't want to pressure you into actually saying that you've done such devious acts but ????.. "small hole" "vent pipe" "in attic, under insulation" Wow! such detail ??? ?? Ya know what I'm sayin ----- right ??

Come on Jim, New Yorkers have gotta have a nice story somewhere...............

Maybe a customer that paid for the whole job up front in cash??

Or how about, I went to a house that had a 36" crawl space that had concrete from wall to wall easily 40' x 30'. With a very smooth finish. Even had a center drain that the concrete was sloped towards. Had to go in to spice some wires up between the floor joist. Right there beside the hatch was a new Mechanics Floor Creeper.

Yee haw!!!! Well that made my day!!

Les

;-)

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*

Damn!

Jealousy is a cruel affliction. I never have such luck.

Generally speaking, most New Yorkers are pretty nice ?. particularl y in the suburban areas. It's just that we don't take any crap from anyone and likely have a short fuse.

My son describes me as:

You're a nice guy You're a nice guy You;re a nice guy You're a nice guy

Then you're not. . But anyway, speaking of crawl spaces ?. Reminds me ?.. Years (and years) ago, one of my customers mother, (who was not my customer), and who had an unmonitored alarm system had a pr oblem with her system. My customer asked if I could take a look at it. Her house was on a canal and had a crawl space because of the proximity to the canal. When I got there I noticed that the house had a "smell" to it that I just attributed to cooking or whatever but it didn't have significance to me until later. . Trouble shooting indicated that there was an open in one zone. After checki ng all the contacts I concluded that it was probably from a rodent chewing on the wires in the crawl space. After searching for the key to the lock on the outside Bilko crawl space doors, I opened it, probably for the first t ime in years. The crawl was about 4 feet high, (more than enough room ) but ??. the dirt floor was a complete solid sheet of jelly lik e fungus (I guess ?) about an inch or two thick. . Being pretty young at the time I got my knee pads on and "waded" in. Found and repaired the chewed wire. I had to hose my self off and clean myself up with rags before I left and then had to go home to shower. . I gotta tell ya, I could smell that S*@%t for WEEKS afterwards. I told her son about the problem but I don't know if they ever did anything about it. . Probably made a fortune selling it to a laboratory to make penicillin or so mething.

Now you see Jim, you are a nice guy. You crawled into that muck and slop and did a nice thing for a little old lady. :-)

BTW this is fun!!

Reminds me of a crawl space where I was installing stereo speakers in walls. The customer wanted the speakers about receptacle height through out in a very old house. On the East Wing I cut out plaster and wire mesh for the speaker and drilled my 3/4" hole down to the crawl space. Inserted the wire enough that it was just dangling. Went down to the basement and went to the hatch. Used my flashlight and looked back about 25' or so and could see the wire hanging there. Yea!!

I got into the crawl space (just dirt) and started to crawl my way back to the wire. After about 15' or so I noticed that the bottom of the floor joist were rubbing my back. I had to lay down and slither like a snake. Another 6'-7' I could barely move. I was in wedge. The dirt was rising. I had a another 2' or 3' to go in order to just touch the wire. I reached my arm out as much as I could and continued to slither. Finally got the tip of my finger on the wire. Just a little more.............. Had to take a breather. That is when I realized that if I got wedged that tight and could not get out, nobody would know where I was since I was the only one in the house at the time. And that they would not find me until I started to STINK!! Oh, and cell phones did not exist as yet, so calling for help would never happen.

I considered stopping at point and maybe come up with a plan "B". But, I was soooooo close. I wiggled a little more and finally got my finger and thumb on the wire. I then inched (1/4") at a time pulling the wire down until I had enough that I could grab hold in my hand. Then I had to reverse inch myself back out and pulling the wire. It took me all but an hour from then time I went in until I got back out. I was a very happy guy at that time!!! Sat on the basement steps for a while trying to relax. It was T&M job so all was good.

Today, if I had to do it again I would use my R/C Truck to retrieve the wire with a hook. Would be done in about 3 minutes.

Thanks Bob for starting this thread. Good job!! I guess it was good you sweated you ass off in your attic and decided to share. :-)

Looking forward to the next installment to this thread.

Les

Hi,

I have worked in the far south, where the attics in the summer are at about 140 deg+ w/no ventilation fans, nor ridge-vents, and you only allow yourse lf 5-8 min at most. One such journey, was in an attic with scissor-trusses that allow a cathedral ceiling in the room below. There was at most a 24" c learance at the peak, by about 30" wide in a triangular space (not square t russ access), but I had to get to the other side of the house for wiring. A s I crawled thru, I noticed a carpenter ant nest in the batt insulation whe re I needed to pass. I figured I could go over them with 4-5 inches clearan ce and did so successfully. After I finished my wiring, I had to go back th ru the same pathway. Well, by then, my vibrations after having gone over th em the 1st time, had seriously agitated them. By now, my breathing was labo red and it is afternoon hot-sun time, and I have to get out since I have sp ent my precious time slot away. Somehow, I was able to slowly crawl with on ly my hands and toes on the rafters, while there was by now about a hundred or so of them in an agitated 'bite-him-now' mood. I did make it to cooler pastures and never dared to do that again. If they had gotten to me, I prob ably would have just jumped thru the drywall ceiling and told the customer that the ants overpowered me. Enjoy.

Hogan

ut 140 deg+ w/no ventilation fans, nor ridge-vents, and you only allow your self 5-8 min at most. One such journey, was in an attic with scissor-trusse s that allow a cathedral ceiling in the room below. There was at most a 24" clearance at the peak, by about 30" wide in a triangular space (not square truss access), but I had to get to the other side of the house for wiring. As I crawled thru, I noticed a carpenter ant nest in the batt insulation w here I needed to pass. I figured I could go over them with 4-5 inches clear ance and did so successfully. After I finished my wiring, I had to go back thru the same pathway. Well, by then, my vibrations after having gone over them the 1st time, had seriously agitated them. By now, my breathing was la bored and it is afternoon hot-sun time, and I have to get out since I have spent my precious time slot away. Somehow, I was able to slowly crawl with only my hands and toes on the rafters, while there was by now about a hundr ed or so of them in an agitated 'bite-him-now' mood. I did make it to coole r pastures and never dared to do that again. If they had gotten to me, I pr obably would have just jumped thru the drywall ceiling and told the custome r that the ants overpowered me. Enjoy.

Hi Hogan, Welcome.

In Les's case above, at least the "smell" would have attracted someone even tually.

But in your situation, through the drywall ceiling would have been my exit also. Because otherwise, I would have envisioned me as a picked to the bone skeleton sitting in the attic for eternity. And the homeowners every once in a while saying " Hey ?.. I wonder what ever happened to that ala rm guy who was working here"

larly in the suburban areas. It's just that we don't take any crap from any one and likely have a short fuse.

er, (who was not my customer), and who had an unmonitored alarm system had a problem with her system. My customer asked if I could take a look at it. Her house was on a canal and had a crawl space because of the proximity to the canal. When I got there I noticed that the house had a "smell" to it th at I just attributed to cooking or whatever but it didn't have significance to me until later.

ecking all the contacts I concluded that it was probably from a rodent chew ing on the wires in the crawl space. After searching for the key to the loc k on the outside Bilko crawl space doors, I opened it, probably for the fir st time in years. The crawl was about 4 feet high, (more than enough room ) but ??. the dirt floor was a complete solid sheet of jelly like fungus (I guess ?) about an inch or two thick.

und and repaired the chewed wire. I had to hose my self off and clean mysel f up with rags before I left and then had to go home to shower.

her son about the problem but I don't know if they ever did anything about it.

Yeah I can see how that view of the crawl space would be deceiving. Like on e of those "crazy houses" where things look bigger at one end and smaller a t the other.

In my "thinner" years I was in some pretty tight places like that but nothi ng that tapered smaller.

Ran into a racoon once. No story to it because I didn't stay that long. Ama zing how fast you can climb down a ladder when you're really motivated. Jus t told the owner to get rid of it before I could continue the job and his r esponse was Oh, is THAT what's been making that noise up there" Duuuuuh.

Bee's are another story. Been chased a number of times by bees. . Had a trainee with me one time and we had to check out a bell in an old Ade mco 1011 bell box. I told the kid to bang on the box before he tried to ope n it in case there were any bees in it. So he gets up on the ladder, taps o n the bell box a couple of times and immediately starts unscrewing the cove r that only had one screw in it. Well, if he would have waited a minute or so he wouldn't have had to jump the 10 off the ladder when the bees finally got it together to swarm. Lucky for both of us he didn't break a leg. Look of terror on his face. Thought his eyes were going to pop out of his head. .

I was far enough into my experience then that I had wasp killer spray in th e van to take care of it. . I'm thinking that he probably knocks on every door before he opens it for t he rest of his life.