Is there any licensing, at all, required for the Mississauga, Ontario area? I believe the alarm licensing in Canada refers to Alarm Agents. I read a contract that said "N/A" where the license number was to be inserted on the contract. Good to go or are they missing something?
Thanks in advance
There's no licensing requirements in Ontario at the moment (not-with-standing the business license required by most municipalities). They've been talking about it for a while. Some jurisdictions (in Canada) require the tech have several CFAA
RHC: Yup, Ontario is the "wild west" of alarm sales and installations ! After all these years, I kinda like it that way (although a strong case can be made for licensing I know). But usually that just leads to the creation of some sort of self serving regulatory body with little or no knowledge of our business, intruding into our business activities for only two reasons...."control" (that's definately the Canadian way), and licensing ("taxation of a sort"...another thing we have too much of....)
For actual fire systems, yes, I can the need for regulation, but not burglary. But I'm sure the big alarm companies will support it if for no other reason than it will make it harder on all the small companies ....
RHC: Yup, Ontario is the "wild west" of alarm sales and installations ! After all these years, I kinda like it that way (although a strong case can be made for licensing I know). But usually that just leads to the creation of some sort of self serving regulatory body with little or no knowledge of our business, intruding into our business activities for only two reasons...."control" (that's definately the Canadian way), and licensing ("taxation of a sort"...another thing we have too much of....)
For actual fire systems, yes, I can the need for regulation, but not burglary. But I'm sure the big alarm companies will support it if for no other reason than it will make it harder on all the small companies ....
Thanks guys! There was a line item in the agreement that states that a license is required in some provinces so I just wanted to make sure. A client could and probably would overlook the requirement if someone simply put a "N/A" in that space. At least my client is savy enough to not only have their attorneys look at it but a third party from the industry as well. Looks like they are good to go. Unfortunately, they are assuming this agreement through an acquisition. I am not particularly fond of the security company but that's life. There is too much left on the agreement to just dump it with a pay off.
"Bob Worthy" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : FyU3l.11966$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
Like our friend from Ottawa told you , in Ontario its free for all..
But in Quebec you need 2 thing, a contractor licence and a technician licence..And the tech need to be in a union..
Thats for all sector of the trade, exept one.. residential retrofit.. in new house you need licence, but in old one no.. strange enough for me, dont ask me why..
de
RHC; Yeah, isn't that a weird one ! I can cross the border into Quebec to install an alarm in an existing residential home but I can't assist a homeowner building his house with a pre-wire job or a complete install. Of course, that makes about as much sense as a lot of other regulations "home brewed" in Quebec to protect their trades. They can work in Ontario without a license of any sort, but we can't go into Quebec to reciprocate.
Don't yah just love regulatory bodies.....
I hear you tourman, I went out several years ago and got the required licenses both CCQ and RBQ. this now mean that I have to pay myself throught there union managed regulatory body when I work in quebec, they withhold all my payroll deduction, withhold my holiday pay and tell me I have to take the last two weeks off in July! Plus the Quebec provincial Gov. now has me running a seperate GST account, a seperate workmans comp account, QST.....ha the headaches..plus a $5000.00 performance/character bond.. All this enforced by union thugs..CCQ... This is an age old debate about cross border work, and they wonder why most work is done under the radar....by trunk slammers, and even more strange is that these small trunck slammers are mostly from Quebec (a regulated industry) and can't make it happen there because of the regulatory burdens.. I sometime think that Ontario should also have a minimum justification for working in this industry not so much to protect the consumer per say but to enforce provincial parity.
Pogo
RHC; Yeah, isn't that a weird one ! I can cross the border into Quebec to install an alarm in an existing residential home but I can't assist a homeowner building his house with a pre-wire job or a complete install. Of course, that makes about as much sense as a lot of other regulations "home brewed" in Quebec to protect their trades. They can work in Ontario without a license of any sort, but we can't go into Quebec to reciprocate.
Don't yah just love regulatory bodies.....
RHC; Yeah, isn't that a weird one ! I can cross the border into Quebec to install an alarm in an existing residential home but I can't assist a homeowner building his house with a pre-wire job or a complete install. Of course, that makes about as much sense as a lot of other regulations "home brewed" in Quebec to protect their trades. They can work in Ontario without a license of any sort, but we can't go into Quebec to reciprocate.
Don't yah just love regulatory bodies.....
All of this is sorta interesting. Doesn't Toronto have a rather punative false alarm/dispatch policy? Why did this come about? As everyone knows, I am pro regulation unless the regulatory agency is simply collecting fees/taxes. No doubt most of them are doing just that. I also see that it can work, as intended, and it makes things between private business and public safety workable, rather than threatening, especially when they can see results. It has taken alot of years with alot of trial and error, but I think Florida has finally found the formula that will work for everyone. We'll see.
I am not pro union. I came out of Michigan, which is one of the union strongholds in the US. However, I have worked in management or owned companies (non union) my whole career. Florida is a right to work state. Unions exist here but are very weak. They really have out lived there usefulness. Of course that is a hot topic when I visit DAD. Union electrician. He bleeds IBEW.
You know, the problem is not the regulatory bodies.. Its the lack of it.
In a trade like security system or electricity there is a need for regulation, the lack of it is just calling for trouble..
The fact that anyone could install a fire alarm in a building in part of this country is giving chills all over my back.
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RHC: As I indicated earlier, fire yes, burglary no.....
Not sure why they would be required to "pay off" the balance of the contract if they're taking over the building. Find some local guy (like RHC), rip out the old stuff (from the company you're not "particularly fond of"), and install all new equipment with an agreement that doesn't "lock in" the client for an extended time.
RHC: Frank, this total lack of licensing here in Ontario is really a bad thing. I have been a locksmith for 35 years totally without any sort of license whatsoever other than a normal business license. Just about anywhere in the world you go, there is at least a background check on a person who wishes to practice this craft. Alarm installation is just as bad. The only requirement for alarm installation in Ontario is that you are a primate with an opposing thumb. True fire systems I know nothing about; however, it doesn't surprise me to hear they are not regulated either.
As Canadians, we seem to have everything in our society regulated far beyond any real need. Regulations seem to be something we here in Canada are comfortable with (far more so than our American friends), so it amazes me that government agencies haven't stepped in here where some measure of regulation could actually prove useful (as opposed to a lot of Canadian government regulatory activities which are only self serving and an excuse for additional taxation).
Sometimes I really have to wonder.......
"tourman" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@b1g2000yqg.googlegroups.com... On Dec 26, 5:55 pm, Frank Olson wrote:
RHC: Frank, this total lack of licensing here in Ontario is really a bad thing. I have been a locksmith for 35 years totally without any sort of license whatsoever other than a normal business license. Just about anywhere in the world you go, there is at least a background check on a person who wishes to practice this craft. Alarm installation is just as bad. The only requirement for alarm installation in Ontario is that you are a primate with an opposing thumb. True fire systems I know nothing about; however, it doesn't surprise me to hear they are not regulated either.
As Canadians, we seem to have everything in our society regulated far beyond any real need. Regulations seem to be something we here in Canada are comfortable with (far more so than our American friends), so it amazes me that government agencies haven't stepped in here where some measure of regulation could actually prove useful (as opposed to a lot of Canadian government regulatory activities which are only self serving and an excuse for additional taxation).
Sometimes I really have to wonder.......
I don't know about other industries but I do know from experience that regulation of the security and fire alarm industry, here in Florida, is something that was lobbied for by the industry. It was done to control our own destiny before another group lobbied for and won control. To them, it was all about money. It happened to have been the security guard industry. That was back in 1976. It took nine years of legislative work to get it passed into law. Since then, the statute has been tinkered with to keep up with the times of an ever changing industry. Now that the whole licensing regulation is based around education, it is one of the more successful programs in the country. Earlier this year, I attended a meeting of locksmiths who are involved in a national movement, through ALOHA (sp), to get licensing across the country, state by state. The alarm industry, for which I am the legislative committee chairman, is watching this bill with interest since they are infringing on the alarm trade which already has laws in place for some of the things they are trying to accomplish. Redundancy will get them no where. With another trend of shrinking government, they have a long road to hall but they have to start somewhere. It is funny how people look at regulation as an enemy when in fact, if followed, is very favorable. I guess it just depends on which side of the fence one feels most comfortable whether they are for or against it. It is also interesting how some consumers look at it. Some would rather deal with the trunkslammer because they think they are getting a better deal. Sometime they are but more often they are not. But what is more interesting is that they will turn around and do it again even after getting burnt.
...
RHC: Bob, I am not "anti regulation" generally speaking but it has to be based on a real need, and it has to actually achieve something for both those affected in the industry in question as well as the general public. Too often though, special interest groups have too large an affect on the ultimate "solution" because of self serving political interests. Consumers on the other hand only ever seem to complain when they get burned and often they think it has happened because their perception is that they were somehow affected by lack of regulation. In many cases, they got burned because they made a stupid buying decision and don't have the wherewithal to realize it was their own fault....it seems to be the common way today to blame someone else for your own mistakes...
I can only speak for our country; too often regulation starts with the right intent, but somehow morphs into something quite different, serving no one other than the regulatory agency itself. We have the CRTC regulating what we can see and which TV channels we have to have broadcast, and the content of same. We have the CFC regulating whether we can own a firearm, and mandating which guns are "evil" and "non sporting", and under what conditions they can be used for legitimate purposes, and can't even keep a half assed accurate data base. We have ......................aw f*ck it................no one cares and this is just me blathering on.....sorry about the off topic subject matter (again).....:(((((
Fire is regulated in many cities in Ontario. Visit the CFAA website to get the scoop. The only thing I don't agree with is the fact that you have to PAY to get the forms to perform an annual inspection. As far as I'm concerned any form that follows CAN/ULC-S536 (Inspection Standard) should be OK to use.
BC is regulated to the "nth" degree (where it comes to locksmithing and burglar alarm installations/service). In most provinces, you have to be a licensed electrical contractor to install a fire alarm system. This does not mean that your fire alarm system will be installed properly. I've done a number of verification/commissionings where it's obvious that neither the contractor or the designing electrical engineer knew the installation standard (CAN/ULC-S524). Then it's a "fight" to see whether the contractor can get an "extra" for all the stuff the engineer missed. Sadly it's the contractor that has to "swallow" the mistakes.
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