I read an article that indicated a secondary router can be daisy-chained of f of a primary router. For example, as follows: (a) a cable modem's internet port is connected to router-1's internet port. (b) router-2's internet port is connected to one of router-1's ethernet por ts.
I'm far from sophisticated in these matters, but this seems logically feasi ble to me. What I don't know is whether or not this same procedure would w ork with an access point being used in place of router-2.
Thanks for your reply. It is most helpful. I have a follow-up question th at pertains to the context for my original question. If you're pressed for time, just skip to the end for that question. Otherwise, here's the . . .
CONTEXT: In my scenario, I'm not the one who has control over the Access Po int (AP). The AP is one among a few dozen apartment building Access Points that are collectively managed by the building's ISP. Previously, I had sim ply replaced the ISP-provided AP with my own (non-AP) router, in order to h ave control over my own internet connection. Subsequently, I learned that the AP in *my* apartment is *not* necessarily the one servicing my apartmen t. That is, demand within the building is load-balanced among all the Acce ss Points. So, disconnecting it and swapping in my own router turned out t o be problematic from the ISP's point of view. Therefore, I have removed m y router and swapped back in the AP. But, of course, that means I once aga
m trying to do is regain that control without interfering with (and ideally , without being visible to) the AP that's associated with the cable modem i n my apartment. Hence, my . . .
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: If I daisy-chain the AP off of my own router, will thi s be apparent to the ISP personnel monitoring the building's access points? In other words, will the AP be able to detect (and show) that its connect ion to the modem involves an intermediary connection through my router?
Once again, thanks for your original reply and thanks (to you and whoever e lse may want to chime in) for whatever further help you may be able to prov ide.
A very interesting situation... I believe the ISP could tell your router was in there if they wanted to. They could run a utility to trace packets and see that another hop was in there. But, if your router is running properly, why would they care to check. On the other hand, anyone outside your apartment that happens to use their original AP would be on your network with the resulting security risks. Perhaps that is what the second router is used for in your original post. The first router could maintain a network for connecting the AP and router-2. Router-2 would be your private internal network. If that is the case, maybe you should use a simple "switch" device to share the incoming signal between the AP and your router. (A 4 or 5 port switch can be purchased for much less than a full blown router.) If you do end up with 2 routers, you need to pay attention to which ports are open in router-1. Otherwise you might end up blocking some ports that the ISP intends to have open. A nearby neighbor might find that his or her security camera's remote access feature works sometimes but not other times depending on if he connects to "your" AP that is behind router-1 or another one nearby.
s running properly, why would they care to check. ?? ??????????????????? ??????????????????? ????????????????? Well , this is encouraging. It sounds like they'd have to go out of their way to look for some trouble-shooting-relate
ther hand, anyone outside your apartment
to [be using the AP inside your apartment] would be on
your network with the resulting security risks. ??? ????????????????????? ????????????????????? ?????????????????? Hmmm?
st router could maintain a network for
AP and router-2. ????????????? ??????????????????? ??????????????????? ?????? Two clarification points here:
-----
(1) The first router ("router-1") is my own router. It would connect directly to the cable modem and would have its own pasword-protected SSID. It would be this SSID th at I personally would wirelessly connect my devices to; e .g., computer, smartphone, roku, etc.
----- (2) You ref er to "connecting the AP and router-2" but note, in my sc enario, the "AP" and "router-2" are one and the same devi ce. In other words, we're talking about a total of three devices: [cable modem] router. (A 4 or 5 port switch can be purchased for much less than a
n router.) ??????????????? ??????????????????? ??????????????????? ???? Well, this is interesting. I had looked at switches online but came away with the impression that a "switch" is used to *switch* between ports; i.e., only o ne port could be active at a time and the switch is used to select which port would be active at any given time.
outers, you need to pay
pen in router-1. Otherwise you might
some ports that the ISP intends to have open. ???? ????????????????????? ????????????????????? ????????????????? I unders tand what you're saying but have no idea how to determine which "ports that the ISP intends to have open." Is the re a way for me to find this out?
Pat, I hope that w asn't overly long-winded and that it helps clarify my que stions. Any further clarification you can provide will b e very much appreciated.
I understand now, but I don't think you want to do it that way.
But, it isn't private since the building AP is connected to it. The wireless part of router-1 is protected by WAP2 or whatever you use, but the building AP is connected to one of router-1's Ethernet ports and therefore, your private network.
That is, essentially, what switches do. In this case, I think it is what you want. The upside of the switch is connected to the incomming line. One of the output lines goes to the ISP's AP thereby providing its original function for others in the building. The second output from the switch supplies Internet to your router which provides your private (wired and wireless) network.
I noticed you said cable modem. If that means your incoming service is via coax rather than Ethernet, then everything I have said changes. You can't just add a switch like I previously suggested. I had thought the ISP provided AP was a standalone AP feed with an Ethernet cable. If, however, the ISP supplied AP is really what you called router-2 and is fed with cable (coax), then my recommendation changes. Does the ISP provided device have Ethernet connectors that can feed wired devices? if so, connect your (previously called router-1) router to one of those connectors. That way you don't need to know anything about how the ISP handles ports and you have a private network using your own router.
I hope I haven't totally confused you. To go further, I need to understand exactly what you have. Is the cable modem a separate device from the ISP supplied router/AP or are all three functions in one box? Either way, what connectors are used for the existing connections. (Note that the word "port" can get confusing here. It can refer to a physical connection - for example, the ethernet ports on the back of a switch. Or, it can be the part of the Internet Protocol Address controlled by software to separate messages - for example, web requests are usually made by your browser using port 80).
Various reasons... some just personal preference. In your case, can you tell which one your are connected to? I found myself using the weak signal from the farthest router when the closer one was right nearby. I guess it depends on your situation and why you have 2 routers in the first place. In the case of the original poster, the one was a more public system that was intended to be used by other apartments in addition to his. The 2nd router was intended to be just his. That story is still evolving so we will see where it ends up.
On my phone running Android OS, I have an app which will show me. On my iPad, not directly.
However, the iPad's a lot more eager to switch to the strongest signal on its own than is the phone. I have to turn WiFi off and back on again to get the phone to switch. When the phone's connected to the "wrong" AP, the signal strength display makes it pretty obvious.
APs, not routers.
I have two because the layout of the house requires it.
So, does this mean that if all my connections to router
-1 (my own router) from my various devices, are wireless connections, then my privacy will be secure (via WAP2, et
dem. If that means your incoming service
rather than Ethernet, then everything I have said changes .
ted. ? If?the ISP
alled
ecommendation changes. ??????????? ??????????????????? ??????????????????? ???????? Pat, you've cracked the code! Sorry I failed to be sufficiently clear in my previous po sts. To further clarify . . . Yes, the ISP has provided two pieces of equipment: (1) a cable modem, and (2) a wi reless router with AP capability (or put conversely, an A
?
s that can feed
???????? ????????????????????? ????????????????????? ????????????? Assuming you're refe rring to (2) above, the ISP-provided AP/router has no RJ4
5 receptors (female jacks). It has only a single cat5 ca ble protruding from the device and terminating into a mal e RJ45 jack which is plugged into the one and only female RJ45 jack integrated into the back of the cable modem. This is why I cannot daisy-chain my own router off of the
y you don't need to know
ndles ports and you have a private
own router. ??????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????? ????? Well, possibly some good news hear. Since my last post, I've spoken with a member of the team that provides telephone tech support and they gave me the por ts that their AP/router keeps open: two for http and http s, and one each for NTP and DNS. They said they shut dow
t you have. Is the cable modem a separate
the ISP supplied router/AP?? ???????? ??????????????????? ???????????????????
ting
???????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????? Ditto: see #3.
Well, I guess that's as much as I can describe for now. I hope this c larifies things, but if not, feel free to ask for more ex planation.
Thanks again for your continued interest an d ongoing assistance. It really is very much appreciated .
Good Morning Thri, Your responses have clarified a lot for me, too. If I understand correctly, The ISP supplied router/AP has only one RJ45 connector - and that is the one used to connect to the cable modem. So, it can only "route" to wifi attached devices. I see two possibilities for you:
Add a simple switch between the cable modem and the ISP's router/AP. Then connect your router to a second port on the switch. The problem with this approach is the cable modem may not allow this type of connection. The only way to know is to try it. The cable modem may be programmed to allow only one connected device on its low side - their supplied router/AP.
Leave the ISP provided equipment exactly as it was but buy a bridge device to connect to the ISP's AP wirelessly and provide a single RJ45 to connect your router. I have used IOGear's model GWU627 bridge in the past. That is just one of many devices available to perform the bridge function.
modemrouter/AP BridgeYourRouter/AP-- your devices*
your devices connect only to your router and can be wired or wifi
could] add a simple switch between the cable modem and th e ISP's
nd port on the switch. ??????????? ??????????????????? ??????????????????? ???????? I thought you indicated in your previous post to me that a switch will not work if the f eed to the ISP-supplied router/AP is coming from a cable
The problem with this approach is [that their] cable mode m may ?
vice on its low side
?? ????????????????????? ????????????????????? ??????????????????? Pe rhaps this is the clarification to my confusion mentioned directly above. In any case, it may be worth recalling that we already know the modem will accept a router other than "their supplied router/AP" because my initial appro ach was to simply substitute my own (non-AP) router for t heir router/AP unit; i.e., I had unplugged their router/A P and plugged in my own (non-AP) router in its place.
ed equipment exactly as it was but buy a
to connect to the ISP's AP wirelessly and provide a
At first, I thought you had cat5 coming in to your apartment so I suggested the possibility of a switch. Then I learned you have coax cable coming in so a switch would not work. Then I learned your cable modem had one cat5 output that feeds a separate AP/router. So, a switch is, once again, possible.
Good point. You are correct. However, they may not permit two device connected to the cable modem simultaniously.
Yes.
Yes.
I don't think they would see your devices without going out of their way to look. Your bridge and router would just look like any other device connected to their wifi.
Your router would retain all of its abilities to protect your private network. However, I iknow very little about peer-to-peer file sharing so I can't help you there.
Yes. Your wireless connections would be secured by wpa if that is how you set up your router.
Because doing so puts anyone outside your apartment (using the ISP supplied AP) in to your private network. That causes lot of security problems. The network below your router is supposed to be your private network. The only way to use it should be via wifi (which is wpa protected) or wired (which you can physically see). If you connect the ISP's AP there, you are opening your private network to anyone who knows the ISP's password. That outside person could trace and see all your messages.
No.
Don't let unknown people on to your private network!
Another extended delay in my response . . . sorry 'bout that. Pat, I hope you're still checking out this thread. I think it will probably be my last substantive post on this topic, although maybe I'll chime in with some epi logue content, once I've tried out one of your suggestions.
Inline response follows . . .
r as >> follows:
??? ISP-supplied router/AP
????????? ?????????? ????????? ????????? ?????????? ????????? ??????? I think I finally understand what you've been trying to tell me ? I can be a little dense sometimes. What was throwing me off was thinking t hat if all my devices were communicating through my router using WPA-protec ted Wifi, then I'd be secure as long an no one had access to my password-pr otected SSID. Now I see that this would protect me against only those tryi ng to get to my router wirelessly. It would offer me no protection against anyone getting to my router through a wired connection, which is exactly w hat the case would be with the ISP-supplied router/AP cat5-connected to my router.
So, as you suggested, I think I'll try getting a simple 4- or 5-port switch through Amazon. If it doesn't work, I can always return it. I appeciated your earlier mention of a decent wireless bridge; likewise, do you have an y thoughts on a make/model for a decent switch?
In any case, thanks again so much for all your help . . . and patience! It 's been practically very useful and more generally, a real plus in terms of my general conception of what's going on (in a basic sort of way) with loc al area networking.
Hi Thri, I am just now seeing this message. It looks like you sent it days ago, but I missed it then.
Switches are very inexpensive. You can probably find one at a local store for $20 - $25. Places like BestBuy and even Walmart have them. (I am assuming you are in the US).
You are welcome. I get lots of help from others on these groups so I don't mind passing it on. I am sure you will do the same for someone else.
On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 9:27:36 AM UTC-4, Pat wr ote:
t looks like you sent it days
n. ?????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????? ?? No problemo, Pat. I appreciate that you saw it at all and took the time to reply.
y inexpensive. You can probably find one at a local
tore for $20 - $25. Places like BestBuy and even Walmart have them.
? ??????????????????? ??????????????????? ?????????????????? I located one on Amazon for ~$25:
formatting link
? ?? made by TP-LINK. I'll go that route since I get free shipping with my "Prime" membership.
Aug 2016 21:34:44 -0700 (PDT), Thri Cipio
e, thanks again so much for all your help . . .
ou are welcome. I get lots of help from others on these groups so I
ill do the same for someone
??????? ????????????????????? ????????????????????? ?????????????? I certainly will. And I like to think our exchange here will ? thanks t o your knowledge and experience ? help others also. To ward that end (as well as to satisfy any lingering curios ity you may have as to how this turns out for me), I'll p ost the results of hooking up the switch in my particular environment. It would be great if it works!
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