Advice for calling US Mobile Phone?

Well, let's see. That's about USD 27. For $29/mo (plus tax) I get

250 daytime minutes and several thousand weekend minutes. For low use I could pay $19/mo for 50 minutes. These all include nationwide roaming and long distance, i.e., I can call anywhere in the US from Alaska and Hawaii to Maine and Puerto Rico, and I can use my phone anywhere in the US, even on other carrier's networks in areas where mine (Cingular) doesn't have coverage.

Sorry, but you do not pay for toll-free calls. Those are the only calls you don't pay for on metered service besides emergency calls.

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Maybe I'm missing something. You ruled out Singapore because its population density and size were too different from the other countries under discussion. China's population density and size are nothing like Singapore's. And yet China's mobile phone termination charges are very low.

miguel

That's really neither here nor there in a discussion of caller-pays vs called-pays, isn't it? What sort of TDMA signal can you get 30 miles outside of London, and what does that say about the advantages or disadvantages of caller-pays?

miguel

The US has a much lower population density than the UK, yet lower mobile charges overall. Termination charges charged by UK mobile operators are a rip-off, pure and simple.

I think a simple way to end this rip-off while retaining the caller pays system, would be if OFCOM banned T&C's which restrict who can buy mobile tariffs and what they can use them for. If a mobile tariff is available to the public, then anyone should be able to buy it, including other telcos.

Then you'd get discount telcos like 1899 buying banks of mobiles on top-end contracts, and using them to route calls to mobiles and being able to offer very cheap rates. BT could even do it. Termination revenues would then plummet and the mobile operators would be forced into a more honest pricing policy. And prices would be cheaper overall.

-- Andy

Define overall. I'm very happy with what I get for my 15 quid a month, and I can't offhand think of any plan I'd rather have- other than it being free. I'm happy to pay 10p a minute to call a UK mobile- even happier with the 6p I currently pay (for a limited time.)

The caller-pays disadvantage is quite simple IMO. Beautifully simple in fact. Consumers pay more for phone calls.

And I don't want to make my friends pay 5 times as much to call me.

miguel

Actually you can still purchase metered local phone service in the U.S.. Pacific Bell still offers it. It's about $5 cheaper per month than umetered. You pay for every call, including toll free calls. However it would still probably be the best deal for many people, because so many calls are intra-LATA, and are paid for seperately anyway.

Yes, this is what the studies have concluded. And the termination charges now, have come down from several years ago, but are still very high.

The key to the operators being able to get away with this, is making sure that enough of the populace never looks at the big picture. They convince them that 'incoming calls are free,' even though that this is untrue. Externalizing the cost so it doesn't appear on the mobile phone owners bill, but is instead distributed among all the people that call the mobile, makes it appear insignificant.

What makes you think that OFCOM is looking out for the interests of consumers?

The average cost of a call is lower (including charges paid by both parties).

But you only have a choice of UK plans. Your combination of Orange ED50 plus

1899 is a good deal *for the UK* but I'd wager it could be beaten in the US (factoring in of course the premiums paid by your callers).

You're plan is - let's see if this is right - £15 a month, inclusive 50 minutes offpeak a day to landlines and Orange mobiles (perhaps 25% of UK mobiles). To call other mobiles you pay 3p + 10ppm during the week, 2ppm at weekends. To call landlines peak you pay 3p per call. People calling you generally pay a 10ppm premium.

10ppm is a rip-off. I can call someone in Sydney for a tenth of that price (1ppm with Telediscount to Australia).

You might be happy paying £3 for a half hour chat, but I'm not.

Still, if most people are like you, I might just get a 10ppm premium rate 09xx number - after all if people don't mind paying that sort of price I might as well make some money out of it!

-- Andy

Which plan beats it then, for my uses.

And calls to practically all the landlines I'm likely to call abroad.

I generally call landlines, both here and abroad, from my mobile. I pay extremely low rates abroad as well, and I can call most of those numbers as part of my inclusive calls. Seems like a pretty good deal to me- there's a good reason it's not available to new susbcribers, without transferring the plan from one person to another.

I can call someone in Australia using inclusive minutes, but I won't be able to call a mobile in Sydney for that- nor will you- so make sure you've got your comparisons straight.

I don't chat for half an hour when I'm calling someone's mobile. Most of the calls I do make to mobiles are relatively short- and it's not something that bothers me. The caller pays system has distinct advantages for me as the consumer. If I wanted to cover their costs, I could always divert my landline to my mobile, but of course I wouldn't. The current system suits me very well- I certainly prefer it to the US system, and I used to live there.

If I knew I'd have posted it. Haven't got a clue about specific US tariffs. I posted the details hoping someone from the US would tell us.

Some UK corporate deals are very good - I've got a company mobile which costs my company £4 a month, and call rates are 3-5ppm, cross network 15-20ppm. I have never got anywhere near to spending £11 a month on calls. Last month I made 30 calls and it came to less than £1.

Yes, because you're not paying mobile termination premiums.

I have! I'm comparing the cost of calling *landlines* with calling mobiles (in the UK and other countries where it is free to receive). My point was that the premium to call a mobile (both here and to other countries where it is free to receive) is massive and 10 times the cost of sending the call to a landline on the other side of the world.

I'm in favour of it too but without rip-off termination charges. It should cost about the same to call a mobile from a landline as it does to call a landline from a mobile - exactly the same resources are being used in both cases.

I think it is possible to get lower charges while retaining caller pays - as I described.

-- Andy

That doesn't strike me as a very good deal, based on my usage pattern- remember, during the day, I'm charged 3p per landline call- it's then untimed after that. How much does an an out of bundle daytime minute cost?

Yes, and 10p per minute for calls to most mobiles. And you forget to mention that's not part of your mobile deal, that is using a separate discount telco, and probably the best value one in the UK. I'm sure similar things are available in the US, eg calling cards etc.

Based on the cheapest calling card/indirect access telco rates?

-- Andy

I know- but that's not the factor- the point is, I can call them.

It's not a straight comparison, because you compared the cost of calling a UK mobile to an Australian landline- compare a UK mobile to an Australian mobile for a better comparison.

You also have to remember that the cost of calling landlines has fallen dramatically. I remember in the 90s, when I lived in the US, thinking that 10 cents a minute to call the UK was a great deal. Now, I'd think it was too expensive.

Ah- but on some plans, it does cost the same. Look at the rip-off Orange 'Your Plan' jokes. It works out around 10p a minute to call a landline.

I'm all for lowering the charges, and trying to lower them- though I think that consumer choice has a lot to do with it- i.e. they shouldn't use the more expensive services. Problem is, consumers here are often wowed by signing up for a contract to get a silly new phone that they don't need.

Which I don't call much. Most of my mobile calls are to businesses which always have landline numbers. I'm usually only calling mobile numbers when they other person is on the move, and the conversation is typically not a long one.

I didn't 'forget' to mention it- just don't think it is relevant.

No- how much does it cost. It's a simple enough question.

"chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco" wrote in

Hmm, maybe the caller pays system is a good one. It would result in much lower mobile phone usage, so people would pay more attention to their driving.

about the same as here using the "real world" exchange rate of £1=$1.

We usually include tax in prices. The US market is 5 times bigger than the UK has a minimum wage that is 40% lower and hasn't changed for several years and has gasoline/petrol at 1/3 the price. So getting stuff at the same price or less in the UK is somewhat unlikely.

As for "excessive" charges, can someone tell me which phone company is making a huge profit %sales or %capital so I can go and buy some of their shares :-)

Phil

Perhaps you do. I do not see however how the constant debate on "we're better than you" is supposed to accomplish anything at all. Europe isn't switching to the system used in North America and North Americans aren't switching to the system used in Europe. That's reality. Deal with it! If you love your system fine. You have it. If you want to come over to North America be prepared to do something different than you do in the UK, Europe or wherever you are. I'm prepared that things will be different in Europe as well and I'd be just foolish to rail against what is the status quo there and likewise you'd be silly to do likewise in North America. This old pony gets trotted out from time-to-time, and if you haven't learned yet you need to learn that it's *NOT GOING TO BE SETTLED* and definitely not on usenet.

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