PBX in tenent building - 911 calling

911 **done right** in multi-tenant buildings can get expensive. The PSAP does not use "caller-ID". Rather they use a NENA-standard data stream sent as MultiFreq over a CAMA trunk *OR* sent across the D channel on T1-PRI. You'll also need to contract with a national database management company, such as ENTRADO and then keep them regularly apprised of any moves, adds or changes. That's the right way. Ideally you'd want a PBX that can do all this without any adjunct equipment. That PBX is a MITEL SX2000 or a MITEL 3300 ICP. Both of these machines are NENA-2 compliant and can be equipped with PRI-ISDN.

The cheap way is for the building management to get the hell out of the phone business. Then order a 1FB/POTS line for each tenant, have the LEC install each one inside each tenant unit, give each tenant a standard

2500/2554 instrument and then your ass is covered from a legal standpoint. The tenant can use the line for TIVO/Satellite TV as well.

If you feel completely compelled to provide a front-door dialer, do so, but program it to call each tenant's 7 or 10-digit POTS line. Once again, this gets -you- out of the phone business.

Been there and d>Most of the tenants in the condominium building ( 30 units), use their cell

Besides which, if you start reselling phone service - and that is what you are doing even if it comes out of the condo fees, the DC Public Service Commission will have a lot to say. Check with them at

202-626-5100.

any phone system allowing DID service will allow the incomming call to map to a particular extension. as far as 911, i know for a fact that any system from Nortel (Norstar / Meridian) will allow the system to dictate the outbound CID info to the local exchange. alternatives for outbound DID/911 are just about any old POTS line. however, if using pots for outbound, the CID info is locked to that particular pots line that an extension grabs for outdial. i have a customer using PRI (23 channel ISDN) for a small campus environment (15 buildings and about 115 phones) and all inbound DID and all outbound calling is carried via the PRI. the system also contains about 4 POTS lines set up as a secondary routing alternative for the PRI

- this allows for outbound calling only in the case of PRI failure (hey, its a digital circuit~ basically a T1 with fancy options so of course if fails from time to time.) the 911 calling can then always reach out in case of emergency. i am most familiar with Nortel products, but i suspect any mid sized phone system will handle the features and flexability you require.

Scott Nels> Most of the tenants in the condominium building ( 30 units), use their cell

-->Good advice. Thanks to both of you. Makes sense. I'll call the PSC just for Kicks ( good for learning if anything else..... ;-)

Scotty

Comments line below:

-->Would this extend to E&M ( CLEC ) circuits? If we got 5 E&M POTs lines with DID and could make outgoing calls via the same lines, we could ask the LEC/CLEC to put a name to each number and that would work. I haven't heard of DID lines doing outbound as well but........ ? I think in order to to do something like this, one would have to have an ISDN PRI line to do both inbound and outbound calling and get the Station number to go both ways ( DNIS ), do CID, CID w/name, etc.

( Just geeking out and learning at this point, as the first 'poster' said "The cheap way is for the building management to get the hell out of the phone business" seems like good advice. ) ;-)

Thanks for the help!

Scotty

Don't place so much emphasis on CallerID. Your local 911 PSAP doesn't look at CID. They look at a NENA-standard data stream from INTRADO (or similar centralized database aggregator). You need to spend some time researching and understanding how 911 location ID works. Once you do that you will stop fretting over CID and realize that CID is *not* part of the 911 picture, period. Please note the period.

Repeat after me, " 9-1-1 does not use callerID...."

911 location information does not come from the phone company. It comes from INTRADO (or someone similar)

Correct, ISDN PRI, aka "Smart Trunks" in some jurisdictions. But still no good for 911. You'll need to be able to send a NENA-standard datastream over the D channel in order to use them for 911 and be able to address the location ID requirement. No low-end PBX on the market has this ability. You will need to look to high-end commercial systems.

I honestly think both building owners/management as well as the tenants would be well-served by a decision to back away from this and let "the phone company" do the phones. In today's highly litiguous society the building owners and property management company would be grossly misperceiving the existential risk of civil liability, not to mention the support liability. If individual tenants want to each (or, God forbid even collectively) invest in their own phone system(s), **LET THEM** and make sure building owners/managers not interfere or otherwise attempt to become involved.

If you're seriously wanting to do 911 in a multi-tenant environment, you could probably do a lot worse than to contact these folks:

Oh, and bring your checkbook.. Minimum system $10-large, and up exponentially from there.

The ultimate source, however, is the phone company LIDB. So the phone company's data is, actually, quite important -- though not the same data used to generate the Caller ID digits for POTS called parties.

E-911 Info _CAN_ come from the location, it just takes money. Plant Equipment, Inc. (PEI,

sells PEAbody which is intended to provide location information to PSAPs in building/campus environments... Blurb from their website:

PEAbody is compliant with National Emergency Number Association (NENA) ALI format standards.

PEAbody allows organizations to control, maintain and/or utilize specific databases of location information. An organization's ALI information is stored on-site, which provides the option of sending the correct ALI directly to a designated PSAP and/or to private security via pager, e-mail or IP address. PEAbody can also be deployed by PSAPs for better data control and to save money on database maintenance. Because PEAbody conforms to NENA ALI data formats, users can format their entries to meet a variety of needs, including X and Y coordinates for wireless calls, supplemental information on specific buildings or rooms and more.

....

And for the record NENA is National Emergency Number ASSOCIATION, a industry group... There is no such thng as National Emergency Number Administration.

Lincoln [Who's first year of college was paid for by PEI, a wonderful local company with great employees]

True that telco ALI data is required (in a NENA-standard format), but the ultimate "Screen Pop" of location information that your local 911 PSAP operators see before them comes directly from Intrado (or similar provider). Actually Intrado is the predominant provider of 911 location information almost nationwide and I do not know who else does this.

[N.E.N.A.] stands for "National Emergency Numbering Administration"

There is a very excellent 9-1-1 Tutorial available here that should be mandatory reading for anyone considering doing a multi-tenant PBX.

Right you are, and the dollars can easily become cubic, which is why some entities operating (or planning) multi-tenant PBX systems are just now starting to rethink the wisdom of their original plan.

The importance of (and fast growing legal requirement for) accurate 9-1-1 location support is the major nemesis facing VOIP phone system providers today. Considering a new VOIP phone system?? Better plan on throwing some cash at how you're going to address your 911 requirements.

Cisco conveniently omits this during their VOIP sales pitch but then makes you sign an acknowledgement/liability disclaimer at install time. Of course this paints an entirely different version of the potential savings picture. Companies are looking to VOIP as a way to get out of the Moves, Adds and Changes (MAC) business but then wind up taking on the nightmare of E911 database management to track the MACs they aren't having to do.

-->Comments inline below:

-->Yep. You're right about that. ;-)

-->I rethunk it after the first newsgroup postings here and just looking at the details of how to make it work. The purpose was the save everyone money and to impletment E911 right, it definetly defeats that requirement........ Now it's just a learning thing.

-->Yeah, no kidding. Cisco's Emergency responder isn't cheap and you need one in every office.

Gotta do what ya gotta do. :-)

Scotty

wdg@wrote

I agree.

And if they take the decision not to have a POTS line, then they take responsibility.

It could be prudent for the building managment to get a payphone line put in to the lobby, so there is *a* fixed phone line for emergency use - but again, supplied and maintained by the local telco.

Owain

-->We allow 911 to be dialed from the front door entry machine.

Good thinking though.... ;-)

Scotty

"Scott Nelson - Wash DC" wrote

From what I've read, allowing 911 from the door entry panel seems quite common. Doesn't it mean the building owner gets into trouble for hoax calls made by passing delinquents outside the building?

Owain

The problem here is that a local telco (or even a COCOT for that matter) won't do this if they don't feel it is profitable for them. I know in the building where I work, Verizon has arbitraily removed two-thirds of the payphones that were once in the building without consulting anyone (and, I may add, leaving very ugly gaping holes in the walls that they didn't bother to even try and cover up). The proliferation of wireless phones has meant the revenue that these phones once created has dwindled to the point where it's not cost effective for Verizon to keep the line and phone running, so they simply rip them out when the stream of quarters and dimes dwindles. No amount of cajolling will sway the phone company, no matter how nostalgiac we are for them (or even if we felt a legitimate need existed that justified the phone staying there).

So, if you call the phone company and say "we need a payphone installed here, it'll just be for 911 and we don't think anyone will really use them for any other calls," you'll pretty much get laughed at. The phone company will take on delivering 911 service, but they're not in the business of maintaining a phone and line that will only generate losses for them. They generally expect for there to be revenue tied to such an endeavor, or a subsidy of some sort (USF, lifeline assistance, etc.).

Now-a-days, here in Qwest-land they'd laugh and then say "don't call us - we don't do coin phones anymore!".

I just got a letter at work (from Qwest) saying that they'd sold off their public telephone business to a new company and they were OUT of that business! The new owner (I can't remember the name right now) is made up of former Qwest employees who bought the coin telephone business from Qwest. For now, Qwest says the new company will use the same equipment, same office space, same trucks, same everything to service their accounts. I hope that lasts!

Al

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. However, I would back completely away, period. I would not put -anything- in the lobby for public or semi-public use, as to do otherwise could, under the wrong set of circumstances, potentially expose you to liability. Get sued once and have a $50 or $100,000 judgment entered against you and you will quickly learn what to furnish and what not to. Talk to your legal counsel. Nowhere is it written that you are legally or even morally required to furnish telephone service in your lobbies or public access areas. However, the moment you -DO- provide such service then, again depending on circumstances, liability may attach.

If you want to put a receptionist and/or a security guard in your lobby, fine, but whatever phones you put there, it needs to be clear and unmistakeable that physical access to those phones is semi-controlled (i.e., behind a desk) and those phones are there for the exclusive use of your guard & receptionist and are not public phones (regardless of what calling features they may allow). If you put a phone up on the counter for visitors to use, it needs to be a "house phone" and be clearly marked as such.