E911 on a Coin Service Line


The only real phone line in my house is a (17Q) coin service line.
This is a proper coin-line designed for use with a standard telco
payphone. I have it because I collect vintage phones and wanted
my Western Electric 2C2 payphone to work properly. Eventually I'm
going to move it to Asterisk once I've hacked the line card driver
to recognize coin tones.
Anyway, I've told others in my household that the payphone is the
best bet for 911 calls (since calls placed from other phones in
the house are completed by various VoIP services).
I wonder, though, if the PSAP is going to see "public telephone"
(Class of Service = "27") on their screen if we call 911 from the
coin line. I realize that they'll have my phyiscal address, but
if the PSAP tells the emergency service provider that the call
was from a "public telephone" my concern is that that might
delay the response since I live in a completely residential
neighborhood of single-family houses and nobody driving by
would think there's a "public telephone" in this house.
What do y'all think?
Reply to
Mark Rudholm
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You might consider contacting your local police department (on their non-emergency number) and ask them if they have a procedure for performing a test call. They might be willing to do it much like a burglar alarm test call.
That way you would know for sure what address turns up on their screen as well as starting what ever procedure that might be needed to correct a wrong listing.
Reply to
GlowingBlueMist
The cops are probably the wrong place to call to verify the operation of your coin line... Most locations have a combined communications agency that services the 911, city police, county sheriff as well as numerous fire and first aid agencies. At least here in the Portland, OR area there are a few of these agencies (based, generally, on the county in which you are located). If you call those people they'll be able to confirm exactly what they see on their screen when you call and, if you're having difficulties, they'll have some technical person who can help you.
Reply to
Al Gillis
Huh? Depends on where you live. In our county, we have 5 PSAP's as primary answer points.. If you live in that city, that city answers, if not the sheriff answers. You just have to figure out who answers and call them on the landline to test.
Carl
Reply to
Carl Navarro
My city runs its own PSAP. I know they'll get the right street address, I'm just curious if 1) they'll see that it's from a payphone and 2) if that information will be given to the emergency responder and cause a delay (since my house doesn't look like a place that would have a payphone).
I'm pretty sure #1 is true (anyone with ANI II can see I'm calling from a payphone, so I'm sure E911 delivers this info). So the real question is if the dispatch sees it and how they treat that particular bit of info.
Reply to
Mark Rudholm
I believe you asked what we all thought and now you want to argue?
TEST THE LINE!
The type of line is probably NOT sent to a PSAP. The PSAP administrator has the information of who the line belongs to. If they are told the line is in a residence, then that's what is put in the database.
Carl
Reply to
Carl Navarro
I think you're either attributing a post to me that someone else made or simply mis-reading my tone here. I'm not arguing, I was just trying to ensure that I had clearly characterized my thoughts. Granted, the topic was at least as much a discussion as it was a question.
Yep. I plan to during the business week.
My city's Police Dept does run a PSAP (#834) that is purported to handle all 911 calls that originate within the city. I am curious why you think calls to 911 from my coin line wouldn't go to a PSAP though.
-Mark
Reply to
Mark Rudholm
Actually no, here's your quote: " My city runs its own PSAP. I know they'll get the right street address, I'm just curious if 1) they'll see that it's from a payphone and 2) if that information will be given to the emergency responder and cause a delay (since my house doesn't look like a place that would have a payphone).
I'm pretty sure #1 is true (anyone with ANI II can see I'm calling from a payphone, so I'm sure E911 delivers this info). So the real question is if the dispatch sees it and how they treat that particular bit of info"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think payphone screen codes get transmitted with the ANI unless they've done some changes. The point is, the database controls the listing not the screen code. The 911 database administrator controls what the PSAP operators see.
You're on the right track. If, in your test, you don't like what they see, call back in on the landline and ask to talk to the database administrator. They will be happy to make sure they see what they're supposed to see.
Carl
Reply to
Carl Navarro
Having made 911 calls from a payphone, the police don't seem to care. I would say it's just as reliable as any other landline phone with giving the correct address.
As others mentioned, test it. I was told to dial 911, then announce "this is a test of the line, could you confirm my location at 1234 Main Street, 555-2368?" The operator should do so.
Reply to
hancock4
I called my PSAP's "non-emergency" number first, gave a brief explanation about wanting to test 911 service from a "non-standard" phone line in my house. They were very nice and said "ok, you can go ahead and call now." after getting my street address. I asked her how the call was showing up, we confirmed the address was correct, and she said "it's showing up as a payphone, though."
I asked if that might delay an emergency repsonder, since the line is actually in a single-family residence. She said that it would not, since the address is correct. She futher explained that the only difference in how they handle payphone vs. regular lines is that on hangup calls, where the caller doesn't say anything at all, they only send one unit if the call originated from a payphone, but they send two units if the call originated from a regular line. That seems to be a completely acceptable limitation, IMO.
So there's the answer. For my PSAP at least, they do see that the call originates from a payphone, but it doesn't really make much of a difference.
Reply to
Mark Rudholm
snipped-for-privacy@bbs.cpcn.com wrote in news:1177347120.268989.4000 @b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
One question.
Is your coint phoneline a full public, or a semi-public coin paid line?
Unless the line was brought in from the street, and is a full public coin, then if it is a semi-public coin telephone your name, or the name of the party that receives a comission revenue payment check from the local service provider, & address should be in the 911 database. This should also track telco repair records.
Full public coins in the former Bell Atlantic area of Verizon, I don't know about the fGTE areas, are translated to block incoming calls (NYNEX did this around 1994-1995).
This above was done during the heyday of the digital beeper when drug dealers would hang around street coin phones to cut their deals. Now with cellphones, its a moot point.
Bill
Reply to
Bill
It's a USOC 17Q Coin Service Line, off a DMS-100 (LSANCA34DS1), provided by Pacific Bell / SBC / AT&T (call them whatever you like) out of Los Angeles District Area 5. The class of service / screen code is "27" It is treated in some ways as a business line, and it pays business rates. The "business" in this case is simply me. The bill comes from SBC/AT&T directly to me. The service is about 65$/month after taxes.
These lines are normally used by Payphone Service Providers that want real telco-style coin signalling. It has no inter-LATA service, as that is no longer available since AT&T stopped offering it.
The installer was a bit confused when he showed up to install it. He was sure there was a mix-up on the order. I had to *insist* that I really did want a 17Q.
Reply to
Mark Rudholm
Not all public pay phones were programmed to block incoming calls*.
In any event, I've seen 911 call back a payphone where the caller hung up.
I find it hard to believe that 911 service would be any less from a payphone line, regardless of its classification. If anything, since pay phones serve as a public emergency phone, their need is critical. Some transit carriers have pay phones in stations, even at a cost loss, to serve that need.
(*
Some pay phones were converted back to rotary in an attempt to thwart beeper use.)
P.S. FWIW, Verizon pay phones in and around New York City offer coin distant long distance (station) at 25c/minute, $1 minimum. Useful service. In some other places, the pay phones no longer offer coin distant long distance. They offer regional coin service and it ain't cheap.
Reply to
hancock4
Out of curiousity, how much does the line cost you per month?
I recently bought an AE 120B pay phone (their answer to the WE payphone) and would wonder how much it could cost to have full coin service installed.
Dave
Reply to
Diamond Dave
I guess the line rental would enable your phone to handle local calls, I presume they send out a coin collect or return signal based on supervision of the called party as has been traditionally done.
Some older "post pay" phones did not use a hold area, rather, they required a deposit only if the called local party was reached. They required a switched polarity line to signal and reset the collection function. (The transmitter is cut out until the 10c is desposited). I doubt this protocol is supported today.
But what about toll calls? How would calls be handled and billed?
Reply to
hancock4

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