Re: NYS mandates "large print" for utility bills [Telecom]

Sorry -- willing to be convinced otherwise, but I don't believe this.

[And _if_ it's true, then can we conclude that seniors as a class deserve no special concern or help with dementia? After all, if as a class they're as mentally sharp as any other group, do they need or merit any special concern?] ***** Moderator's Note *****

This has veered off-topic, so I'll ask that any followup be off-list.

Bill Horne

Good point. Most of us pay the water bill in person at the village hall since we're passing by anyway. Particularly the old folks who rush over and pay the day the bill arrives because they hate owing money to anyone.

ObTelecom: how many places are there in the country where you can still pay your phone bill in person at the phone company?

R's, John

I'm told that you [may pay your] phone bill (wire line and wireless) in person at AT&T phone stores in California, though it seems to be a big secret. Verizon Phone Marts also [accept payments].

Gee, here in Trumansburg we drop by the corporate HQ. It's only two blocks from the village hall.

R's, John

***** Moderator's Note *****

I thought the Verizon HQ was in New York city. Not so?

Bill Horne

Verizon took over the old AT&T campus I believe. A good chunk of its HQ is also still in the old GTE HQ near Dallas, Tx.

Verizon? Who's that?

***** Moderator's Note *****

Oh, I see: one of _those_ kinds of telephone company ... (sniff)

Bill Horne

Ever since utilities became a necessary part of everyday life and achieved monopoly status, "social benefits" was and is to this day a critical issue in rate and service discussions and regulation. I think it most certainly is valid for discussion here, as applicable to utility services.

In the winter, there are frequent newspaper articles about fires caused by unsafe space heaters, stoves left on, or overloaded outlets all done because either electricity or gas was cut off for non payment of bills. The object of hostility was the "cold hearted utility company" who cut off the poor suffering family. Many PUCs have issued strict rules on how delinquent payers are to be handled with many protections, and as a result utilities lose big money on them (which the rest of us have to make up). One municipally owned gas works has a very bad deficit as a result of a city ordered very liberal policy of no-cutoffs to deadbeats.

We pay a Universal Service tax on our phone bill, and low income subscribers may get discounted service.

Social issues very much affect utility services and will continue to do so in the future.

And, no doubt, if you had a beef with the bill, you could invite the company owner out into the parking lot to settle it.

Dave

The doorman there is that big dude from the old Laugh In; the one that Ernestine sends out when you don't pay your bill.

Don't be silly. We'd negotiate over a beer at the bar around the corner.

R's, John

Many years ago, (I think about 10) I had to change ISPs as one in the Jamestown, NY area was pulling out of the market. So I went off to visit the three ISP offerings. Two were run by independent telephone operating companies.

The first was the ISP run by DFT Communications, where the Maytum family still provides dial tone to folks around Fredonia, NY. The corporate headquarters were set up to allow folks to pay their bills in person.

Next, I headed west along US 20 to Westfield, NY where C&E Communications makes their home. Their building was also set up so folks could pay their bill in person. While asking about their ISP offering, someone did walk in to pay their bill that way. It seems to be a great way to pay the phone bill in cash for older folks.

The third place was a Jamestown based dedicated ISP which I settled upon. While not a phone company, I have gone in there to pay my ISP bill on at least one occasion, until I got the credit card auto-payment set up.

(A)

(B)

In some places, a small utility or municpality will handle disputes by (a) or (b) above. It's not a good practice as it usually leads to more troubles and litigation. I know of one town where for decades the town council tended toward debate by (a) above, and was always mired in litigation that arose afterwards. In other towns (b) led to charges of favorrtism.

Our town had to some faces on the town council who were headed in the above direction but fortunately cooler heads prevailed and the hotheads either resigned or were voted out. Unfortunately, local politics caused a good town manager to get caught in the middle and fired.

As to paying in person, today some large utilities no longer have branch offices to accept payment or even designated payment agents as they once did. At one time many years ago only wealthy people had checking accounts; others had to pay their utility bills in person at the company or through a local store which charged a fee. Some bought money orders (which are still available from the post office). Today most people have checking accounts. I'm not sure how low income people pay their bills, maybe the check cashing places in poor neighborhoods act as agents for a fee.

A few years ago the modern Western Union wanted to get into that kind of financial service business using its network of money transfer agents as a base. I don't know how far they went with it, but apparently money transfer is a service often used by people who limited means or immigrants.

As an aside, regarding informal cash payments, there is a privately owned small road bridge on the upper Delaware River where the toll is collected by a woman standing on the yellow line with a newsdealer's apron; the bridge is nicknamed "the apron lady bridge". It's been a while since I crossed it so I don't know if it's still done.

Having been both a long time customer of the phone company and the mayor of the village, I have to say that my experience has been the exact opposite. Informal processes tend to arrive at consensus, formal ones where people make speeches at hearings tend to polarize the sides and lead to a train wreck.

You do have to treat people fairly, but the way you do that is to treat people fairly.

R's, John

You probably mean the Dingman's Ferry bridge. When I crossed it earlier this year, there was still a guy standing between the two lanes collecting cash tolls by hand.

They have a nice web site at

ObTelecom: their phone is on the Pennsylvania side

R's, John

Yes, that's the bridge. Thanks for the update.

FWIW, in New Jersey there was a major bridge leading to shore resorts that was privately owned, but apparently the private company went broke and the state ended up with the bridge, discovering it to be in lousy shape and in need of major repairs.

FWIW, I think the area up there is Independent not Bell, but I'm not sure.

• * * *

Per our other discussion on seniors and telecom, something happened just last night. At midnight, an elderly neighbor, 90, was discovered collapsed in her kitchen. She had falled much earlier and broke her hip. She had an emergency call button necklace, but wasn't wearing it when she fell and had no way to get help. Fortunately a neighbor finally saw her and called 911. I hope she'll be okay, though she might not be able to return to her beloved apt; while she's mentally sharp, physically not so good.

Those emergency call necklaces are a great idea, but of course the person has to wear them and have the presence of mind to use it in an emergency. Not all seniors have that capability. They ought to be waterproof so they could be worn at all times. (She took her's off apparently to go to the pool.)

***** Moderator's Note *****

I'm surprised that the companies which offer these devices don't include an accelerometer to detect falls.

Bill Horne

As you know, neither suggestion was entirely serious. The point was, with a small company you have some chance of actually talking to someone who can do something, instead of another drone who mindlessly recites "I'm sorry, ma'm, that's not our policy."

That, or purchasing money orders (sold in supermarkets, check cashing places, etc.). So, add on the cost of the fees and postage, are we better served or more poorly served than the day when you could go in and plunk your money down?

Money transfers are very attractive when funds are going to the less developed world, where the recipients probably do not have bank account either. WU (no idea whether it's the same company or just someone who bought the name) is still a big player in that.

Dave