HA Issue

I think you are referring to the 1132B. I bought one when they were introduced and found that they were overly sensitive to low level and out-of-band (I think) noise. They would become deaf to the powerline. I never found any way to fix it. Someone who sells thousands of TW523s was looking at using them but experienced the same problem.

All of their later models appear to have the same issue. The LEDs on the

2000STW lamp modules and 2414S >Good Morning All,

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

Thanks Dave,

yup, 1132B PowerLinc. And that was my exact issue with the SwitchLincs. They would just flash away, and never accept the assigned House and Unit I sent them.

Sooo, It sounds like I need to switch to the tw523 or psc05. Thats not too bad I only have 2 PowerLincs to replace. Then I can take one apart and see if it can be tuned alittle better.

I thought about the noise issue so I barrowed an ELK signal detector. Thanks to Jeff's XTB I have tons of signal but really never saw much noise on the ELK. Thats why I was fustrated with this.

Thanks for the tip Brad

Brad

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

Hey Dave,

I just got done looking around for that ACT Scope-Test2 setup. I can't seem to find them online. Got any hints as to where I may purchase one from. Looks like a better tool then the little Elk tester I barrowed from a friend.

I like to see whats go> Thanks Dave,

Brad

> snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

Here's ACT's PDF...

and web page...

I got mine from Worthington but I don't think it's listed in their online catalog and it's no longer in their print catalog. I believe ACT has abandoned this market and bet the farm on A-10 and Z-Wave.

You can use 3 resistors and a capacitor to accomplish more or less the same thing. See Microchip's AN236, Appendix C-3 for the values. It blocks most of the 60Hz although you'll still see a wee bit. It has the advantage of being a low-pass filter so you might see higher frequencies than what the Scope-Test2 or ESM1 will pass. (IIRC, Paul Beam, who designed the ESM1, told me it passes ~75-175kHz.) I was never able to see what was affecting the Smarthome devices.

FWIW, an LM14A performed flawlessly in the same outlet where the 1132B and other Smarthome modules would not. And the 2000STW and 2414S are OK in other circuits. So I think it was akin to "no seeums".

BTW, search this group on "John Galvin 1132B" and you'll find a schematic of the 1132B. I don't think you will be able to easily improve the tuning but you can create your own PIC or perhaps incorporate the needed functionality in your current PIC.

John Galv>Hey Dave,

Brad

> > snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

Brad

>> > snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

You and a few thousand others. :^)

Hello Robert,

Makes me wonder, doesn't this stuff get thoroughly tested? Unreliable PLC does such grave damage to the reputation of HA.

There are a few proponents of the "Linc" stuff who post here. However, I've heard far more complaints of dysfunctional 'Linc components than almost any other product line. One sage poster commented that "SmartHome doesn't sell low quality hardware unless it has their name on it". :^)

Since I compete with them I won't comment on the store up or down. However, I don't recommend 'Linc products.

Just to add a bit of detail...

I have 3 of the 2000STW lamp modules. None would set the address, flashing the LED randomly, if on the same circuit with the MultiSync XV15 but all were OK in another circuit and all were OK if I plugged the monitor into two filters. One filter was insufficient. I had one Leviton 5A filter and one home-brew that consisted only of the choke from an X-10 lamp module.

Initially, I bought a single 2000STW just to test it. When this problem appeared Smarthome replaced it plus they gave me two more modules. All three act the same although there are minor differences in sensitivity (i.e. one was OK with a single filter, one other seemed to be on the cusp with a single filter and one always needed both filters).

According to the specifications, they are far more sensitive than any of the X10 made gear. IIRC they claim 10mV sensitivity. (They claim even better sensitivity for Insteon.) I think the increased sensitivity might be a two-edged sword. Assuming they count cycles ala X10 to determine 1 or 0 (>=48 between ZC+250µS & ZC+900µS is a logic 1 for an X10 receiver - except the CM15A), they might be counting low level noise pulses, getting into an endless loop, seeing continuous pulses but also seeing everything as invalid Manchester code.

The MultiSync XV15 monitor has since died and gone to the landfill so I'll never know the details of what it was putting out but the modules might have been seeing low-level, spikey type noise from the monitors PS or flyback. I bought the monitor for half-price as a refurb (from NEC) and got about 12 years use so I can't complain.

A lot of pe> yup, 1132B PowerLinc. And that was my exact issue with the

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

Thanks for the input guys,

Just finished ordering the replacements. And I also found a X10 schmo for my scope. So I'll build that and of couse isolate my scope ground and see what I can see.

Dave, are there any off base harmonics that you know of I should look for? Like multiples of 120khz. I do use Jeff Voltz XTB, Could it be amplifying off base freqs?

Well I guess anything is possible.

Thanks for the help Brad

I doubt that it's harmonics. More likely its just low-level spikey noise since it affects the *Lincs but not the less sensitive LM14A. The LM14A does have less bandwidth than other X-10 devices. Off the top of my head I think the LM14A went to ~175kHz while other lamp modules responded to >200kHz. I don't recall whether I tested any of the LampLincs for bandwidth.

The XTB could exacerbate the problem for the *Lincs if it amplifies low level noise to the point where the *Lincs can detect it. Jeff had some noise issues but I don't recall the details. It would be better to let him address this point.

IIRC the LampLincs have 10mV sensitivity vs. 50-100mV sensitivity for most other makes of X10 receivers.

If you look at the 1132B schematic, there's not much there. They use the same I/O transformer as X-10. The link below has links to all of John Galvin's schematics.

Without values for the caps and resistors it's hard to determine whether the

1132B counts transiti> Dave, are there any off base harmonics that you know of I should

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

The XTB includes an amplifier in the return signal path to make up for signal lost in the coupling networks. That amplifier provides some gain to low-level X10 signals, but will also increase the level of any transients and noise on the line. This only applies to the X10 transmitter input receptacle. The X10 modules I tested it with did not seem to be effected. However, I was not able to get an Insteon module to work reliably when plugged into the X10 transmitter receptacle.

About 3 percent of the people using the XTB have reported problems, possibly due to noise. Two users reported problems using a SignalLinc 1132B, but their XTBs worked fine with TW523. So, I don't recommend using the XTB with a SignalLinc. Again, this only applies to devices plugged into the X10 transmitter input receptacle. The XTB outputs nothing to the line unless it is actually transmitting.

Jeff

Not to mention the twenty-five here:

Tsk!!