Just read someones rant about how they need to buy a new router every year or two because they get flakey and start acting up. Is this opinion utterly bogus or do a lot of people actually have trouble with equipment that quickly gets intermittant and flakey? If so could this perhaps be due to lightning damage?
I have the first Linksys BEFSR41 unit that was available on the market in our area, still works like a champ.
I never install network gear without a quality UPS solution protecting it. I've never had a router (cheap or expensive) fail in the last 5 years.
Yeah, they can go out in a flash if they are not protected properly by a UPS. I am not talking about some surge protector strip on the floor either.
Duane :)
Protection is earth ground that every incoming utility must connect to before entering a building. For example, if the CATV wire does not make a hardwire connection to that common earth ground, then those street utility wires are nothing more than an antenna connected directly to the router. A direct path for lightning to connect to that router. Typically destructive transients seek earth ground. Either they get earthed before entering the building (no damage) OR get earthed through a router connected to that cable (damage).
Plug-in protectors - power strips or UPSes - are promoted by myths. They would have you believe it will somehow stop or block what even three miles of sky could not. If a protector is not connected short to an earth ground, then the protector is not connected to protection. No protection - no earth ground - means no effective protection. Therefore ineffective protectors make themselves obvious. They avoid all discussion about earthing. Earthing - not to be confused with that safety ground in a wall receptacle.
Most common source of lightning transients? Which wire is highest on telephone poles? AC electric. The homeowner must provide an AC electric 'whole house' protector sold by responsible manufacturers such as Square D, Leviton, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer, GE, and Siemens. Notice that names such as APC, Tripplite, and Belkin are not listed. The protector is not protection. The protector is effective when it connects a destructive transient to protection - earth ground. Effective (earthed) 'whole house' protectors for residential service are sold in Home Depot, Lowes, and electrical supply houses. Effective protectors have not been found in Radio Shack, Staples, Circuit City, Walmart, Sears, Ace Hardware, Best Buy, Office Max, Kmart, or grocery stores.
Look for yourself. Does it have a dedicated connector to earth ground? Does manufacturer avoid all discussion about earthing? Symptoms of ineffective and typically undersized protectors so often hyped by others who also don't discuss earthing.
Can lightn> Just read someones rant about how they need to buy a new router every
Note to the original poster:
You may wish to check previous threads involving w_tom and "whole house" protectors. w_tom's opinions are fresh and a challenge to us all.
One typical reason for malfunctioning is inadequate cooling. For example, some users have reported that D-Link DI-604 heats significantly, which has probably caused for their routers a shorter lifespan. These things are usually passively cooled.
Once I discovered that problem in my DI-604 (Rev. B2, ARM7) I disassembled the thing, opened couple of holes in the both end of the case, put a pair of ziptie loops through the holes at one end, assembled it, and put it hanging in upright manner under the back edge of the table. The thing now radiates heat freely to all directions and cooling air flows naturally in to lower end holes, through the case and out of the upper end holes. The lower end of the case is now cool and upper end barely warm. Before that it felt hot when lying flat on the table, after all DI-604 takes 7.5-8.0 Watts in use.
As you probably understand, damage to electronics is possible if this kind of 'hack' is executed carelessly, and it voids the warranty. And it cannot be applied to all devices because of their weight and other possible reasons, but some computer desks have additional metal wire cages where a smaller flat router box can be put in upright position to enhance cooling, without opening the router.
Yeah, they maybe fresh but I don't see this doing much good for someone living in an apartment or one doesn't have control of the house.
Myself, I am more interested in keeping the power clean and constant to the router or FW appliance and other devices, which I had a lot of problems with the router as household appliances switched on and off on the line like the air conditioner, refrigerator, furnace etc. etc. causing problems that the UPS corrected the problems and I never had another peep out of the router.
Duane :)
Power switching of "air conditioner, refrigerator, furnace etc" do not create electronics damage. They do not create destructive transients. For if they did, then we were all trooping daily to hardware stores to replace smoke detectors, clock radios, bathroom and kitchen GFCIs, dimmer switches, etc. A computer grade UPS only protects data from extreme blackouts and brownouts. Its power is sometimes so 'dirty' as to even be a threat to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Electronics being so robust that this 'dirty' UPS electricity is not a threat.
Meanwhile apartment dwellers must kludge a soluti> Yeah, they maybe fresh but I don't see this doing much good for someone
Duane did not say that they did [at least not in this thread].
Round about here is usually the point at which you get fuzzy on what is or is not a "computer grade UPS", and as to which of your statements apply to which kind of UPS.
Round about two postings later in the thread is usually about the point where you start ignoring the fact that older or more delicate equipment exists that does not have horking big rectifiers and capacitors to get the equipment past dirtiness in the utility power feed and that double-inverting UPSes can do a fair bit of line cleanup. Looks like this time you've gotten an early start on that.
I never said it did. What I said is that the router likes good clean power and not having that UPS in place caused problems with my router at the time in the condo. With one computer a Dell, it would lock-up at times on the keyboard with the power switching on or off with the air conditioner or furnace at times. And I know what's was doing it. It was a PITA to crawl back there and do the unplug and plug on the keyboard. That UPS stopped all problems I was having with the router -- all problems.
It's not going to happen not in any neighborhood I came from or not in any of the high price ones I have lived in to date. It's wishful thinking.
A kludge solution: find the grounded wall
Come on man, some may go through all that but most will not do it.
My advise is just go get a UPS and be done with it.
And if the power drops and transformers blew out where I use to live at on a routine basis in the high price area, too much population in the area, that UPS comes in handy in that area as well. I got a few minutes to save my work. :)
This is the real world talking to you.
Duane :)
Yea, he's like a broken record, always ignores that there are many cases were a "Quality" UPS solution has actually saved devices from electrical damage while devices connected to the same AC Power source were damaged....
I've never lost ANY hardware connected to a Quality UPS, but I've lost several devices that were not protected at the same time.
Standards that electronic equipment must meet - why appliances already have internal protection - are more than 30 years old. Your speculations about big rectifiers and capacitors ignore industry standards - what electronics did 30 years ago.
A double inverting UPS is typically $500. Most users instead have those $100 computer grade UPSes that connect electronics directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. Defined were numbers taken from many UPSes that are described as 'computer grade' - what most users have.
Which UPSes tend to output the dirtiest electricity? Computer grade. Why? Computers are and have long been some of the most resilient appliances. The point. Computer grade UPSes can output dirtier power because computers are and have been so robust. Spend big bucks for a double inverting UPS and obtain no advantage. The computer already makes 'dirty' electricity irrelevant - as demonstrated by 200 volt square waves and a 270 volt from a computer grade UPS. Computers already have internal protection that makes hardware protectors on its power cord irrelevant. UPSes that would harm power strip protectors and some small electric motors are not harmful to computers. We call them computer grade UPSes. Computers are that robust as required 30+ years ago.
Protection at the computer is already inside the computer. Protection that assumes you have earthed all incoming transients at the building service entrance - the single point earth ground.
30 years ago, that DEC or Data General computer had to work just fine even when line voltage dropped so low that light bulbs were at 40% intensity. These AC line standards are decades old despite irrelevant speculations about big horking rectifiers. Back then we had no surge protectors to waste good money on - and did not suffer damage.Leythos repeatedly (like a broken record) makes this claim that a UPS protected some electronics. Meanwhile he again forgets to list those other appliances that had no surge protector and also were not damaged. With or without that UPS, adjacent electronics would not be damage. Therefore, he must have invisible protectors on those other unddamaged electronics. So why does he not tell us how to install invisible protectors on those other appliances?
Meanwhile, effective 'whole house' protectors protect everything. That reality: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground - as was well proven long before Leythos even existed. A shunt mode protector (including those inside UPSes) are ineffective without that earth ground. Even his UPS numerical specs do not claim to provide protection. Earth ground being THE most critical component of a protection 'system'.
That protecti> Yea, he's like a broken record, always ignores that there are many cases
And so we agree on the primary function of a plug-in UPS. To protect data from blackouts and extreme brownouts. 'Cleaning' of power typically does not exist AND is made irrelevant by circuits already inside the computer. Electronics being so robust that a computer grade UPSes can output such 'dirty' power (ie 200 volt square waves and 270 volt spikes) and not harm a computer.
The purpose of a plug-in UPS: "I got a few minutes to save my work. :)" The protection of data.
W-Tom, I've listed them many times, in many of your posts claiming that Quality UPS units don't protect devices, I figured you remembered them as you always claim it's untrue.
Computers, Monitors, Radio's, PDA's, etc... all the normal things that are connected to a UPS at a users desk, those are the protected items - and the unprotected items have been Radio's, PDA's, Computers (since the person didn't use a UPS), Clocks, etc....
I stand by the FACT that a quality UPS will protect devices downstream while other devices upstream are damaged - I've seen it in several cases in many places across the US.
I don't have a problem using one and it stopped the problems of the lock-ups and reboots of the router I was having when I put the UPS in place is the bottom line.
That and what the UPS did to prevent the problems I was having with the router. You'll take note that I said nothing about a *computer* in the problems I was having with the router.
The UPS is doing its job with providing the protection that I need and if a benefits of using one is that it also gives me the time to save data at a critical time of power loss, then that is good too.
Duane :)
Duane, w_tom is trying to tell you that the UPS of any type, will not protect you against electrical surges, he's not saying that it won't help protect you against outages and data loss.
What w_tom always fails to address is the number of situations where a quality UPS device has protected devices from electrical surges what devices that were not protected were damaged at the same time.
w_tom insists that the only way to protect your computers and devices against surges is to install a whole-house surge protector, which many of us know is untrue, a Quality UPS attached to a properly designed power system will provide protection - as it's done in many homes, offices, companies....
A 'fact' that the UPS manufacturer even does not claim in numerical specifications.
A 'fact' that ignores a wire that will carry destructive transients completely around - bypass - the UPS and into the appliance.
A 'fact' that ignores that most plug-in UPSes connect an appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode.
A 'fact' that is not supported by numbers or hardware circuitry. Your appliances that were not damaged were protected by internal appliance protection and how they were connected to earth ground. Effective appliance protection means properly earthed secondary protection at a building's service entrance and properly earthed primary protection on utility lines. Effective protection so that internal appliance protection is not overwhelmed.
A fact that the SAME EXACT DEVICES, one protected by a quality UPS, one not protected, where the protected one was undamaged while the unprotected was damaged - on the same AC outlet - the only difference is the UPS that you claim doesn't protect against surges....
Keep trying, but you can't disprove it - you can rant all the numbers you want, but real world experience wins out every time. Get out of the lab sometime and see how things work in the real world.
I can see it now - take router to the drill press in the garage, insert
2" hole saw bit, drill through case....Benefits: Now works like a firewall in default mode - all directions blocked, better head dissipation lower energy consumption.
:-)
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