You are correct. My mistake, that is what he asked.
The command was demoted, a woman colonel if I remember correctly who according to all information I have read knew nothing. 9 or more of the soldiers at abu gharaib were convicted in our courts and are serving time jail. How far do you have to go above the direct field commanders to attain so ccalled justice? Unfortunately war is not pretty, not trying to justify any actions here but shit happens that shouldn't and many mistakes are made. It is how you handle the fact that shit happens matters.
I agree. But there is a difference between ignoring torture or being culpable in it and doing nothing and taking action against the people who were culpable in it. AFAIK 9 have been convicted and are serving various? amounts of time and several in the command were demoted or relieved of command. ( which is just as bad as being demoted as you'll probably never command again).
This essay, by Lt.Col. Dave Grossman, former West Point psychology professor and retired Army Ranger, was sent by the wife of a retired Marine. She notes, "I've met many Marines in the past 25 years, all the same type: Strong, compassionate, patriotic, brave. Many of our non- military friends say they can't understand why Marines are the way they are. I thought the following article shed a bit of light on these brave men."
Warrior Ethos
"Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for?" - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy, November 24, 1997
One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.
Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.
"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there that will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."
If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.
Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, which is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.
But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.
Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."
Until the wolf shows up! Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.
Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?
Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.
Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population.
There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.
Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.
Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- From sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.
"Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edmund Burke
Here is the point I like to emphasize; especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.
If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.
For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.
I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in
1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"
Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.
Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"
It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.
Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.
Gavin de Becker puts it like this in ?Fear Less,? his superb post-
9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."
Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.
If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on"
24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."
This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.
Is cancelling still supported? I think technically it still is but afaik none of the servers honor it.
You are asking the wrong person to resign and therin lies the problem. People in leadership that make tough decisions nowdays are always a target. Just because of taking a tough job a person can have his life ruined. This is what you are doing to Rumsfeld...Oh I know he is the evil incarnation of the devil and the root of all of our supposed failures :)
Seriously, the leader of our military is not Rumsfeld. It is George Bush. Rumsfeld is a civilian, he has no miltary rank as he is not in the military. GWB is the commander in chief.
You are correct but the position that Rumsfeld holds is not the same as a commissioned officer. Rumsfeld is appointed by the president.
e is, that Mr. Rumsfeld has the political
Specialist Charles Graner ten years in federal prison Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick eight years in prison Jeremy Sivits one-year sentence. Specialist Armin Cruz eight months Sabrina Harman six months. Megan Ambuhl reduction in rank to private. Lynndie England 3 years. Brig. General Janis Karpinski, commanding officer at the prison was demoted to colonel on May 5, 2005, which also effectively ends her chances for future career advancement.
If you have any proof that any other people are guilty or had prior knowledge and did nothing then let's see it. Including Rumsfeld.....
That is just not the way it works....I mean really, think about it. Every leader in every war that has ever happened would be guilty by using the same standard. Are you sure you are not using your dislike of his policies to cloud your judgement?
during the televised senate hearings on the Abu Ghurayb Prison situation ... there were a number of senators that went on for great length about what they felt had happened. numerous times a senator's question was preceeded by 10-15 min. statement about what the senator felt had happened. numerous times the people testifying observed that what the senator may have felt had happened, in no way corresponded with any available facts and testimony. Some of the senators afterwards acknowledged that their preliminary feeling statements about the facts, had been based on no information what-so-ever (other than possibly the sensational headlines that had been playing in the press).
however, one senator went so far as to say that his version of the facts and the version of the facts from testimony would both be published in the congressional record.
another senator apparently was so irritated about all of his statements (about what he felt the facts were) being methodically refuted by extensive testimony and explanation (publicly on live TV) ... on his way out after the session, was caught live on TV, commenting to the person next to him, that he was going to personally see that Rumsfeld was removed from office. It didn't appear that he believed that there was false testimony or any wrong doing by the administration ... other than possibly showing up a senator on public TV.
Good posting! I have a lot of respect for the guys coming out of West Point. They are trained strategists and tacticians. The article itself generalizes way too much, though. Instead of using animals to get the point across, I would have contrasted those who possess leadership with those who are content to be lead. And there are large, varying degrees here. Which is why, to get back to the point of the person you responded to, some individuals have decided to take ownership for their own security (by having firearms, for example), rather than letting someone else (police, etc.) manage their security for them.
I own and tech kids how to shoot, long distance, and enjoy it every weekend. Nothing better than an armed country that can reach out an touch a terrorist at 800 yards!
Since the demise of the ussr ,america being the only superpower is bound to be in the line of fire for all the worlds ills.If it wasnt for america ,there probably wouldnt be any democracy in the world at all (im talking about 2 world wars where america.....like it or not....was responsible for the outcome of those wars.The war in iraq was a bad desicion imo.It was about oil ,and the threat to the US and other countries economy.But this is nothing new.The west drew up plans to invade saudi arabia in the early 70s when the oil supplies were threatened then.Even further back ,britain ,france and israel were prepared to go to war because egypt nationalised the suez canal (an important route for transporting oil) among other things.If the opeq countries said tomorrow that they are no longer going to supply the west with oil ,there would be economic collapse.Do you think Germany would do nothing too?Just the rhetoric coming from iran has sent oil prices sky high.It affects everything ,transport costs,manufacturing,food.We may not like it or want to admit it ,but our governments...including yours ,will wage war to preserve thier way of life.Unfortunatley oil seems to be at the heart of this way of life ,and until new sources of energy are found there will be more hard times ahead,for the west ..and arab countries. me
If you're looking for an innovative rifle scope, one that digitally records any shot and provides real ballistic compensation, well.....let me know :). It won't do 800 yards, but it's good to 500.
I think it depends on your peer server, I am on supernews via comcast and I do not think once the message reaches their server that they will not cancel, probably due to server resources or some such BS.
If I may ask of you, please do not let the politics cloud your judgement over decisions that have such a major effect (if that is what you are doing). Rumsfeld has given his resignation several times to GWB and GWB has not accepted it. He has a very tough job and he has to make very tough decisions, he is performing his job at the request of the President. If you have anyone to blame blame GWB not Rumsfeld.
And isn't that the way it usually works? Give time to a politician who makes an acusation that is totally false, make sure that the press picks it up and it hits the front page and then when called on it publish a retraction (or none at all) on page D-41......
I have ZERO confidence in the main stream press because of this none of the reporters will even throw a flag when certain politicians make obviously wrong or misleading statements. They are left totally unchallenged. Liars, liars and more liars........
We can't afford that for the kids, we're shooting 22lr and 17hmr and other, some shoot my rifle, if they're big enough to handle the recoil. If you've got a link to that scope, post it, I would be interested on my own.
Remember ping pong balls at 100 yards are relatively the same size as your head at 600. It is good to see that people are still talking the time to educate the young uns, in many places it is un pc. What happened to the days of shooting ranges in the basements of the schools?
The ROTC kids use to carry real M1's until a few years ago - now they have lead filled barrels. In fact, you use to be able to shoot at the school until about 10 years ago. Maybe if they still permitted this it could have prevented much of the loss at schools where kids are killed by other kids.
I always thought you were a bit of a nutcase. I'm suprised they didn't lock you up for life for shooting at the school. And now they let you have a gun!
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