NAT is not a mechanism for securing a network.. but.. HELP!

Blocking is part of a firewall, but it can also be part of other things that are not firewalls. So, just because something is blocked, that does not mean the blocker is a firewall.

NAT doesn't have to block anything in either direction. You can have a

1:Many NAT solution (like the Linksys, D-Link, etc...) where all ports inbound are forwarded to a specific IP - which means there is no blocking in either direction.

SPI can be added to NAT devices, it's not included just because the device does NAT, the vendor has to include it.

Reply to
Leythos
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That's not the way I see it, but I'm done here for the most part.

Reply to
Leythos

So, lets call the users Toaster a firewall, since it technically can produce enough heat to create a fire near a wall in the house. See, if we don't educate users they will continue to think those devices are firewalls, and they will continue to allow the sales/marketing types to get away with it.

Reply to
Leythos

CyberDroog wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.easynews.com:

Well if it is not Dangerous little Cyberdrool. What's next out of your mouth?

Duane :)

Reply to
Duane Arnold

Usually not. Try it out. Most ISPs don't filter this way.

Yes. Just read the RFCs I referenced.

Sorry, I really don't know, if the "Personal Firewall" manufacturers are incompetent or if they're lying.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

"In computer networking, tunneling means the transmission of one data protocol encapsulated in another using a tunneling protocol. This technique often occurs in combination with encryption."

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Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

FWIW, I came across this, according to which about 25% of the internet is spoofable.

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Reply to
Stuart McGraw

I'd agree with those definitions.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

Say no more here to me Dangerous little stupid Cyberdrool as you admit to it. You can now go put on a Pamper and go lurk a corner in your apartment or you can lurk in the corner of your apartment complex. Better yet, put on a wireless Pamper and wirelessly stand in the middle of busy street traffic and lurk that.

Duane :)

Reply to
Duane Arnold

It means that you setup a VPN or a method of making the information you are passing between two systems look like some other form of information.

Reply to
Leythos

Look at a proxy as a relay, where you send packets to get to another place so that it looks like your not going to area C.

A) >>> Proxy (B) >>> Where you wanted to be (C)

There are good reasons to use a proxy, but most all of them are to hide something.

Look at tunneling as driving a car through a tunnel - the tunnel is the outer method/protocol, the information (car) drives through the tunnel.

Reply to
Leythos

What is the difference if the S&M types (heh) get away with it? As far as the home user in concerned, a NAT router is *their* firewall. It restricts access somewhat.

By your, and Duane's, strict definition of a firewall, a home user is rarely going to have one.

Note, I do see your point and understand why you want a strict definition. So now maybe you see my point in not thinking it's all that important. For the good of the net, at least many home users are using *something*.

Reply to
CyberDroog

???

You clipped the headers which clearly showed that that post was not mine.

Duane, you are just flat out dishonest.

Reply to
CyberDroog

Whatever it is Dangerous little Cyberdrool the cyberspace ladies MAN, I do not want to know.

Duane :)

Reply to
Duane Arnold

And why is that a bad thing - the only reason they call them Firewalls is to that ignorant people will purchase them. In the days when they first came out they called them CABLE/DSL ROUTERS, then, without any change in the firmware or functions, about 6 months later, they started packaging them as "Firewalls".... See the history here.... Poeple will buy it if you sell it as some BUZZ word they think they need.

Don't get me wrong, I recommend NAT Routers to ALL home users with DSL or Cable, and I was installing "LAN MODEMS" long before there ever was DSL or CABLE service - LAN Modems are single unit boxes with a NAT router and a modem and a 1 or more port HUB - 3COM use to make them and they did great to protect Dial-Up users from inbound (as do the Cable/DSL routers), but they were not and are not firewalls.

You seem to think I want a "stricter" definition when in reality, until those lamers started calling NAT devices firewalls, it was always understood that NAT does not make a device a firewall. It's those supporters of NAT being a firewall that are "watering down" the definition of what a Firewall is.

The real problem is that people think these devices ARE firewalls and that they are getting the same protection that their company firewall give them - even though they have no idea what kind of protection that is.

If you don't object to a Yugo being called a Space Shuttle I can see why you don't object to a NAT Router being called a Firewall.

Reply to
Leythos

Go away little Cyberdrool you are of no intrest to me.

Duane :)

Reply to
Duane Arnold

PLONK

Reply to
CyberDroog

to you too.

Duane :)

Reply to
Duane Arnold

The Yugo and the Space Shuttle are both forms of transportation. They serve, to a greater or lesser degree, in the process of getting from point A to point B.

No one would insist that a Yugo isn't a "vehicle". They are both vehicles.

Reply to
CyberDroog

And that's the point - they both can do some things in common, but no one would ever make the false assumption that the Yugo is a space capable vehicle - which is the point about NAT Routers and Firewall Appliances. The common point is Routing, not protection.

Reply to
Leythos

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