First office install, looking for suggestions and suppliers

Hello all,

After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for the installation of

42 jacks in a very "rough" space, I've started considering doing this myself. I've got 10 years in systems admin in small shops where I already tend to do just about everything (which in the past has included dealing with punchdown blocks for telco stuff, making cables, adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a few people that have done cable installation in the past, I'm pretty confident I can handle this.

The 42 jacks will all go back to a patch panel in a small co-lo room in the office. While there are 42 jacks, there will only be drops at 12 locations in the office (a mix of 2/4/6/8 outlet jacks). This is your typical downtown NYC old office space. Bare ceiling, and when finished, conduit for power remains exposed on the outside walls. No jacks for power or ethernet inside any walls, all surface mount. Office is about 50' x 70', and I will have access after the electricians, but before any office partitions go up. The quotes mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring job - ethernet strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. Every station I need to hit follows the path of conduit. Running the actual cable in this manner is something I can handle I think, since there's not really much to this type of install (besides time).

We have such a high number of jacks/person since we need a minimum of two (phone + computer, later VoIP phone + computer) and the support/tech guys quite often need to get a POTS, DSL, T1, or ethernet (on another vlan) line patched out to them, and that's a total mess at our current place. So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5 years. :)

So now, the specific questions:

-What do you think of this "tie wrap to electrical conduit" install? Seems hokey, but every downtown office in an old building like this seems to have it done this way, and that's what two installers quoted us?

-When following conduit, what's the proper way to "go around" junction boxes and outlets?

-With tie wraps, what's the recommended spacing to keep things in place?

-Surface mount outlets that can have 2-8 jacks on them... Who makes this stuff? Where to buy?

-Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once?

-66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where all the telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or 24 port patch panel, which type of block do I want for that?

We need tools. I've never worked in a place with so few tools. Recommendations for decent brands/models are very much appreciated. I think minimally I'll need:

-decent crimper

-jacket stripper (correct name is?? for dressing the ends of the cable prior to punchdown)

-cat & mouse to tone things out if we get confused

-punchdown tool (anything special in working with keystones and patch panels? We'll also have a small block for telco stuff - see 66 vs. 110 issue above)

-is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on a keystone or patch panel? Good or not?

-suggestions on anything else?

I'm also trying to find a good online supplier where I can get my cable (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid), tools, and jacks. Google finds a ton, but doesn't tell me if they are reputable. :)

My plan goes roughly like this..

-work from the co-lo room out

-put a few very loose tie wraps along the three ceiling conduit runs I'll follow to the outer walls

-pull cable for each jack, verify length, etc.

-add more wraps, tighten from co-lo on out

-work my way down to each office

-trim to desired length (you betcha I'm leaving slack!)

-mount jacks

-punch down

Lastly, any insight that you folks that have been doing this for some time is appreciated. I've got ideas, but I don't want to make the same mistakes that everyone makes on their first job of this size.

Thanks!

Charles

Reply to
spork.sporkman
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Do yourself a favor and buy Panduit and install the cable into it. Trust me its worth it.

Im on Long Island. I use Accu-Tech on Long Island. Talk to Ewan, he gives good pricing. They are a wholesaler of Datacom/Telco stuff. They have everything you'll need.

New York Metro, NY

200 Robbins Lane, Unit C, WH #33 Jericho, NY 11753 Toll Free: (800) 880-9517 Local: (516) 433-3175 Fax: (516) 433-3671

If you walkoff each of the lengths, you can pull the whole group of 42 at once. Make sure you measure correctly.

You can use 110 blocks for both voice and data if you want.

Dont need a crimper. buy patch cords dont make them

HArris Punchdown tool w/66 and 110 blades

Yes, but Id just get the regular punchdown tool.

If you get 2-3 guys to help, you can do it in 1 day (2 the most).

Later

Joe Perkowski

Reply to
Perkowski

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote,in part:

You might want to check out

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I have a friend who has used them several times for good quality, yet very inexpensive cables, tools, etc. Not name brand stuff, but they work well.

Good luck with the project!

Reply to
johnr999

$119-155/drop doesn't sound outrageous for NYC.

Do you prefer wiring 568A or 568B?

Does this meet FDNY code?

This is usually good planning. We ran 4 to every IO.

Zero. Tie-wraps aren't good for HF cable. Especially not tight.

Multiple boxes / reel rack PLUS an assistant to keep'em flowing.

Typically 110, although Siemon makes a Cat5e 66.

Why? You aren't planning on making patchcords, are you? It's hard on the hands and are you sure you know enough?

There is a big slammer for 5pr 110.

Are you sure Fire codes allow non-plenum?

-- Robert

Reply to
Robert Redelmeier

Assuming a supply cost of $1500 or so, that means $4000-$5000 in labor...

Got me, but I guess I should google that? I was just going to punch everything down in the same color code that I always use when making patch cables.

Honestly, I don't know, nor do I care. If they were to enforce that, every class B and class C building in NYC would be shut down. Seriously, I've seen a ton of office space downtown, and it's just not like office space you find in other parts of the country. It's unusually "raw" with power conduit and most all other wiring exposed. Considering both quotes wanted to work it this way (and with non-plenum), I'm quite comfortable with this.

I just made a spreadsheet to demonstrate to management that the cost of

2 vs. 4 in our situation is minimal. I really wish I wasn't fighting that fight...

I'll keep them fairly loose and closely spaced then.

Check and check!

OK, is 110 also the most common punchdown that I'll be finding on the patch panels and the keystones?

We simply don't have one, and in the course of business I know that someone's going to want a 16 1/2 foot crossover cable or some other wacky thing and I refuse to pay $30 at RatShack for that.

In general, single or double, any recommendations as far as brand? I've got up to $100 on this.

See above... None of this is going in air ducts, inside conduit, inside walls, or in a drop ceiling.

Thanks much!

Still looking for more supplier suggestions, and really looking for recommendations on a tool to strip the outer jacket off quickly and easily. I really hate the ones that are on the crimpers - too easy to bite into the cable.

Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take either an RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around the office will do that, but if I order 50 or so, I want to make sure I'm asking for the right thing.

Lastly, any particular favorites for surface-mount jacks? I see Leviton, Hubbell and off-brand generic stuff and it all looks fairly similar; just a small plastic box you screw to the wall and pop a bunch of keystone jacks in.

Thanks again, all!

Charles

Reply to
spork.sporkman

It doesn't matter what other people do. You're the one that get in trouble with the insurance company or FDNY.

Use plenum cable. I'm in NYC and the suppliers I deal with don't even stock non-plenum solid cable.

Reply to
Al Dykes

I think the material cost is considerably higher with plenum.

And prey tell, what order might that be?

Your bosses' might. Or perhaps the owners should. Fire code violations can void a Certificate of Occupancy.

Yes, definitely.

So find a better supplier on the net. Making good patchcords requires lots of knowledge. crimpling plugs on solid is very temporary and prone to intermittants.

A good single will run close to that. Harris.

So? Many codes now require plenum everywhere.

Look for a plastic rotating tool with a small embedded razor.

All RJ45 jacks will take an RJ11, but might squash the outer (important) pins a bit. Don't.

-- Robert

Reply to
Robert Redelmeier

I already told ya Accu-Tech on Long Island or Graybar in Long Island City under the 59th street bridge.

Seriously though, it sounds like you are gonna rig it all together when it only take a bit more to make it nice installation. But, do what you want....

Perkowski

Reply to
Perkowski

Meant for spork spork

Reply to
Perkowski

Murphy's law says that doing this *will* damage the jacks if you ever want to use them for anything else in future :)

Reply to
Mark Evans

I've several manufactures claim in their materials that their pin design on their jacks has been specifically designed to eliminate this problem (both Leviton and Panduit come to mind). As I've not had this problem in quite some time (using Systimax, Leviton and Panduit) I would tend to believe it.

Reply to
Justin

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