X-10 RF home automation being overwhelmed by M2 OFF, C2 OFF and Gxx DIM signals

There's a lot of likely sources for this. Two that seem to be the most likely are IED jammers because this is the Washington DC and is clearly a "rich target." The second is something coming in on the powerlines that the power company uses to read, control or in some other way interact with meters and remote controls that allow them to shut down your central AC during a brownout (you get a rebate for letting them install the box).

The signal disappeared completely after 9/11, leading me to believe it's an anti-IED transmission.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green
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receiver/relay

The wierdest thing about this is that the RF signal has some primitive error checking that shouldn't allow plain old interference to be interpreted as valid commands. Usually, anything that generates an unwanted X-10 command is a piece of X-10 equipment gone mad. They make a plug in controlled called the CM11A that would "speak in tongues" and flood the line with spurious (but correctly formed) X-10 commands if you happened to leave the serial cable used to communicate with the PC connected to the CM11A but not the PC.

It's a headscratcher for sure but that's part of the "charm" of X-10. It's been responsible for my learning all about AC power, sine waves, wiring up

240VAC gear to the circuit box, etc. But when it works, it's just like magic, so it's worth the trouble, at least to me. Stock X-10 gear doesn't work well anymore because of all the switching power supplies and fluorescent lights that can stomp on the relatively weak signal (about 5V). I use a device made by a guy named Jeff Volp that amplifies that weak signal into one over 25V. That can punch through way more interference and makes all the difference in making X10 a reliable protocol again, the way it was when first introduced into a switching-power supply world over 20 years ago.

Thanks for your input!

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Good advice. I remember a story where a man's plasma TV was sending out an RF signal on the same band as emergency search beacons.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I'm pleased with the oven but not happy with Haier America. I bought a new but slightly dented unit, saving about $50 including shipping over a pristine one from Amazon with free shipping but it's missing a user manual and a couple of plastic feet on its bottom. They have an email link on their web page but have ignored 3 emails. I'll try their 800 number next week. I've had a hectic couple of weeks from a reaction to a change in medication (and from frequent visits from the team of nurses and techs the VA's Home Based Primary Care program has assigned me) so haven't gotten around to it yet. If you buy one, you can make me a copy of the manual if I still need one. It's a lot more complicated than a plain old microwave and I haven't figured out all the secret handshakes yet.

Had you populated the BX24-AHT board you got, it reports RF signal strength so might have made a crude direction finder with the right antenna. You can get some highly directional yagi antennas that are printed circuits which would help even more.

Reply to
dlh

Thanks for the suggestion but I buy filters by the dozen! This is/was very odd in that it kept broadcasting 3 different X-10 codes by RF only. No way to filter it out unless I build a Faraday cage around my house. The good news is that it stopped right after 9/11. Don't know where it came from, don't know where it went. All I know is that I am very, very happy it is gone. Nothing like something not working anymore to realize how much you depend on it.

Thanks for your input!

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

A quick (for me!) followup, so please forgive the top post. Interference was off for a week after Labor day but is now back on again full force. Just stopped at 5AM. Distributed 6 TM751's located proximate to most important RF switch controls as their effective range bathed in interference is about 6 feet. No collisions with each other because except for a few spots, each TM751 is in a non-contiguous sphere. Does NOT work with the WGL transceiver active, too. Collision city.

Two kinds of X-10 interference in this case. One is plain old noise, the other is noise that the X-10 receivers believe is an actual X-10 transmission.

I haven't yet "run down" the noise because a) I am lazy and b) IMHO, it's not a solution if it depends on something or someone external to my house doing something.

All in all it's been an interesting study in how low power gear like X-10 RF acts when receiving "undesired" interference (is it ever desirable?"). Now I'm going to see if I can put those TM751's on lamp or appliance modules to switch between the WGL global network or the array of TM751's. There might be some very strong benefits to being able to disable RF control, room by room. X-10. Forever futzing. (-:

-- Bobby G.

If you could capture the raw RF signal using the techniques shown on my website it might help identify the source.

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Who supplies your electricity? Have they recently installed new meters that can be read remotely? I've seen a few reports of problems from some metering systems although nothing similar to what you are experiencing.

Is there any pattern as to when it occurs?

Reply to
Robert Green

On 9/26/2011 6:08 AM, Robert Green wrote:

Bobby G.: I'm sure you've tried this; shutting off all but one circuit breaker in the house and see if the noise goes away. I have been reading this thread from the beginning, but I don't remember now. The reason I bring this up now is that I recently bought a new LCD/LED TV and the RF remote on my Dish DVR started working intermittently and then it stopped working all together. I found that the TV was emitting a whole bunch of EMI and apparently jamming the input on the DVR. It was intermittent as I was moving around various stereo and TV components, including a small FM audio transmitter. I initially thought it was the transmitter because when shut off, things seemed to get better. The remotes finally quit working all together when I finally got the components where I wanted them, even without the FM transmitter. I fixed it by removing the remote control receive antenna on the DVR and connecting a coax cable instead and then, reconnected the antenna at the other end of the cable, some 25' away and in the basement. This took care of my problem, but it show how a new TV can be splattering stuff all over the place. I honestly don't know how the TV could pass FCC Part 15 requirements. BTW, have you contacted the guy recommended by HR Hofmann? Bob is very knowledgeable about EMC and I'm sure the guy he mentioned has similar credentials. It would be fun to use an RF spectrum analyzer and antenna in and around your house ... and in my house too, especially with the new TV.

Reply to
Art Todesco

For any of those still following this thread, the interference finally stopped after the Section 8 house across the street was raided by 5 vans full of policemen at 5 in the morning. I'm beginning to suspect they had the house under remote radio surveillance of some sort that interfered with the X-10 radio signal.

When I woke up, I saw the vans pulling away but fortunately I had the whole thing recorded on my CCTV system (although it was pretty grainy). At precisely 0500, five dark blue-green vans pulled up in front of the house across the street with their headlights out. Then, a huge crowd of approximately 25 agents in black tactical uniforms poured out of the vans, along with a K9 unit and surrounded the house. They finished up at 7AM when a fleet of local county police arrived. Since then I haven't logged a single bogus X-10 RF command and God I hope it stays that way. Of course this all happened *after* I spent a considerable amount of time restructuring all my X-10 RF gear. )-:

I believe it was a drug bust because people would come to their house at all hours of the day and night and never stay more than ten minutes. Also, when they weren't home, people would sit outside their house in their cars to wait for them to come back. People *still* drive by the house slowly as if they are trying to figure out where their drug connection went. Two of my neighbors had complained about something suspicious going on and I complained to animal control that they had a very angry pit bull, which nearly killed my dog and which are illegal in my county. I guess it does pay to complain.

The oddest thing about the bust was that just before the vans arrived, the Section 8'ers turned on their front porch light. I can only assume they thought another customer was coming by. I'll bet they were *really* surprised to see a squadron of agents at the door. Another side benefit is that I can park on the street again. They had a collection of beater cars that would make a used car salesman envious, parked in every available space, on street and off, leaking more oil than the Exxon Valdez.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green
8 zillion florescent plant grow lights??

Rich W.

Robert Green wrote:

Reply to
Rich Wonneberger

Interference

Art, thanks for the followup. I didn't contact anyone, I just switched back to using TM751's located very close to the areas where I had motion sensors or RF switches instead of using a whole house transceiver.

I am kinda of glad I didn't snoop much further because I wouldn't want to be the guy who discovered any remote CCTV surveillance gear! I figure if the power company was doing it, then others had to be experiencing similar trouble but no one was. That meant it was local and my walkaround tests proved that it was quite powerful interference and that it probably wasn't emanating from my house. The RF interference began shortly after neighbors reported suspcious comings and goings and disappeared a day or two after the

5 vans full of black-suited cops/agents raided the place across the street. So far, so good.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I doubt it. The placed was small and packed full of people. Not much room for plants.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Possibly poorly wired HPS lamps ballasts...about a megawatt worth.

Look closely at the windows and see if there is a shadow box with an old woman sitting in a rocking chair in the picture. These are used to stop irradiating the neighbourhood with grow light.

Or you could check to see if your neighbourhood runs a few degrees warmer than the TV forecasts.

You may have noticed the rugs all in the garbage a few months back or junk running down the side walls from the soffits where the condensation has been pumped into the attic. Now the skunk you thought was in the neighbourhood will disappear, also.

Or their names where Ngu.......

For any of those still following this thread, the interference finally stopped after the Section 8 house across the street was raided by 5 vans full of policemen at 5 in the morning. I'm beginning to suspect they had the house under remote radio surveillance of some sort that interfered with the X-10 radio signal.

When I woke up, I saw the vans pulling away but fortunately I had the whole thing recorded on my CCTV system (although it was pretty grainy). At precisely 0500, five dark blue-green vans pulled up in front of the house across the street with their headlights out. Then, a huge crowd of approximately 25 agents in black tactical uniforms poured out of the vans, along with a K9 unit and surrounded the house. They finished up at 7AM when a fleet of local county police arrived. Since then I haven't logged a single bogus X-10 RF command and God I hope it stays that way. Of course this all happened *after* I spent a considerable amount of time restructuring all my X-10 RF gear. )-:

I believe it was a drug bust because people would come to their house at all hours of the day and night and never stay more than ten minutes. Also, when they weren't home, people would sit outside their house in their cars to wait for them to come back. People *still* drive by the house slowly as if they are trying to figure out where their drug connection went. Two of my neighbors had complained about something suspicious going on and I complained to animal control that they had a very angry pit bull, which nearly killed my dog and which are illegal in my county. I guess it does pay to complain.

The oddest thing about the bust was that just before the vans arrived, the Section 8'ers turned on their front porch light. I can only assume they thought another customer was coming by. I'll bet they were *really* surprised to see a squadron of agents at the door. Another side benefit is that I can park on the street again. They had a collection of beater cars that would make a used car salesman envious, parked in every available space, on street and off, leaking more oil than the Exxon Valdez.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Josepi

Rugs??

Josepi wrote:

Reply to
Rich Wonneberger

The carpets are removed immediately as the plant watering system and humidity would make them grow mould badly.

Rugs??

----------- Josepi wrote: You may have noticed the rugs all in the garbage a few months back or

Reply to
Josepi

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