Why is porting numbers such an issue?

I'm in the process. I don't think you can really blame the newcomers when the RBOCs are fighting them every inch of the way. If my LNP gets rejected from Comcast, I will probably select a number near one of my relatives. You can have your number (and virtual numbers) anywhere you want.

If you do join Vonage, by your own device at a local store and retail activate it. There is a $50 rebate, no shipping, and no activation fees. Plus, google for coupons when you join to get a referral credit of a free month. If you don't like it, return it to the store. If you do, there are no fees unless you cancel, then you still have to return the device to Vonage or you are charged $39.99. My first bill is:

Phone Number                                  1     $0.00     $0.00 Activation Fee                                1     $0.00     $0.00 Residential Basic 500 Plan                    1    $14.99    $14.99                                -------------------------------------                                       FET Tax:                $0.45                                       Regulatory Recovery Fee:$1.50                                       Shipping:               $0.00                                       Total:                 $16.94

Google Broadvoice. Same story for at least six months now. That is the only reason I left them after 6 weeks. Otherwise, if LNP is not important to you, they are a great deal. I was signed up on their BYOD plan (Sipura 1000) for $5.95/mo+. Once I saw they weren't porting my number, which is why I initially joined them, I figured I might as well just by prepaid minutes with my ATA for LD calls. I found a place that sells them for $3.00 paypal at .012/min, no other fees, perfect quality.

Here is my confirmation email. What IS good about Vonage is that you are kept informed of the LNP progress in your control panel.

Updated Date: Number Transfer Progress History:

December 15, 2004 Awaiting Letter of Authorization December 15, 2004 Letter of Authorization (LOA) Received December 15, 2004 Transfer Sent to Carrier December 15, 2004 Transfer Sent to Carrier

------------------------------------------ Thank you for placing your order with Vonage.    

**PLEASE NOTE**: You have directed Vonage to assign your existing phone number to Vonage service. Before we can assign your number, your former telephone carrier must first process your request. Once your former carrier releases this number, Vonage assigns it to you immediately.

**IMPORTANT**: In order to begin the Number Transfer Process, Vonage must receive your Letter of Authorization (LOA) form as well as a recent copy of your local phone bill.   In the interim, Vonage provides you with a courtesy temporary virtual number. This number is labeled (VIRTUAL) in the paragraph below. Please feel free to use this number until your carrier releases your existing number. Please note that transferring your number can take at least 15 - 20 business days upon receipt of complete and correct paperwork. Vonage will keep you informed of the transfer process via email along the way.   Your new Vonage Telephone Numbers, Voicemail Access Numbers and temporary Voicemail PINs are: Phone Number                 Voicemail Access Number  PIN

1-xxx-xxxx 1-(VIRTUAL)

You can set up your voicemail at any time by calling your Voicemail Access Number and following the instructions.

Your 11-Digit Vonage phone number is your mailbox number.

For your protection, please change your Voicemail PIN as soon as possible.

Please take a few minutes to review the details of your order.

Remember Slamming?

You had AT&T for long distance, then you start getting LD bills from JoeBlow Telecom. You were slammed.

The same safeguards that prevent that from happening today, and also placed on LNP.

You have to keep in mind that the L in LNP means local. You can have your number (and virtual numbers) anywhere you want IS NOT true. Try moving POTS from one LATA to another, and you will be denied. New York number in California without VoIP, I do not think so.

But what it really looks like there are two factors involved. Just one or both will make it tough on Vonage.

1. Vonage does not have their act together. Moving numbers (LNP) can be automated. Sounds like they are doing it manually and hitting all the red tape that the RBOCs have in place.
2. Vonage does not have a physical network in the SBC footprint. Makes routing numbers to the right location tricky.

Brian LaVallee

I always considered that a good thing -- Free long distance until they reverse it (And contrary to their claims, they CAN take their service off your phone line again. You'll likely revert to the default LD carrier though, not your previous choice)

I have no business relationship with JoeBlow Telecom, and have not authorized them to transfer my LD service, so I wouldn't pay JoeBlow nor acknowledge their existence in any way unless they took it to small claims court.

In these parts, anyway, small claims courts took a dim view of slamming

-- However, if you pay a penny to JoeBlow, it solidifies the business relationship and you'll probably be on the hook for the entire bill.

The is the same principle as when a company mails a product to you without you having previously requested it. You are under no obligation to pay for the product, nor to return it. If they delivered it personally rather then shipped it via mail or a courier, you can actually go after them for disposal fees to cover your time and expresses taking their product to the dump to dispose of it.

Vonage's LNP went fine for me from Comcast Digital Phone. Now I'm thinking I'm very fortunate based on what you are saying.

December 15, 2004 Awaiting Letter of Authorization December 15, 2004 Letter of Authorization (LOA) Received December 15, 2004 Transfer Sent to Carrier December 15, 2004 Transfer Sent to Carrier December 23, 2004 Carrier Approved Transfer December 27, 2004 Completed LNP Transfer

I will depend on my cell phone. Personally, I believe everyone will use their cell phone only and dump POTS. The youngest generation of adults are going cell only, from what I can see. The only reason for me to port my home number to a voip provider is to keep the number I've had for a few years. If I have to lose that, I will just eliminate my landline and go cell only for incoming calls. Then I will use a pay-as-you voip for outbound service for LD. Currently, I use

for .012/min. calls.

From what I've read, WRT porting your number back to POTS, it is actually very easy "IF" the number originated with your local telephone company. They're still partially in control of your number, including the CID database.

OTOH, if you try to port out a number generated by the voip provider, it won't happen. So, the key to keeping your POTS phone number is to never cancel it, just port it to your new provider. Further, I've read that porting your number BACK to POTS is extremely easy, since they already control the number and they want to get back your business ASAP.

I'm just wondering if it's a good idea to do this, what if you want to go back the other way with your number one day..? After all you will still need a landline to get your VoIP service over anyway, so what number does that get when you've transferred its number to VoIP..?

I prefer a totally separate (and new) number, I can then give it to those I don't particularly trust with my private home number. It's less likely to cause problems if the VoIP system goes off for any reason, don't forget it is still a relatively new technology and not 100% reliable, so is it wise to depend completely on it for your phone service..?

Ivor

Cable is one option, wireless is another, DSL is a third. None of these three technically require dialtone on the phone line, although depending on your telco they may have additional requirements.

[snip]

So how are you going to get VoIP with no line coming in..? You just eliminated your landline, remember..?! I don't know of a way to get VoIP without a line of some description coming into the house, be it twisted pair or cable. Given this, you might as well keep the landline you already have and use VoIP as a second line.

I actually use my cellular phone for 90% of my outgoing calls anyway, as I have a good deal for inclusive minutes. But I wouldn't want to rely 100% on it though, in case of an emergency it may not be working.

Ivor

Cable, router and an Analog Telephone Adapter.

It goes to voice mail. Same as if your VOIP goes down.

Re-reading your post and mine, I think I might need to clarify something here.

I had Comcast (formerly attbi) CableTV/Internet/Digital Phone service. These three services all run off of the same cable. I was issued a POTS number and I received a local number from attbi (AT&T Broadband Internet). I still have Comcast CableTV/Internet, but I have disconnected their Digital Phone Service from the same cable.

Recently, I sent in an LOA (Letter Of Authorization) request to Vonage to port (LNP Local Number Portability) my local POTS number over from Comcast, thereby retaining my current phone number. Vonage is a VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) provider and their service relies on any Internet connection, anywhere in the world. This allows me to retain my local phone number for incoming calls, where ever I am in the world with my device. Vonage has a relationship with a couple of telephone companies to allow me to connect to regular POTS lines.

-------------------------------------------Quote-------------------------

I'm in the VoIP business.

Your INBOUND calls are received near where you're number is "physically" located and is terminated on numbers owned by (for the moment) one of two CLECS (Focal and Paetec). However, Focal and Paetec are only used for INBOUND calls, no outbound calls come back through these gateways. How much Vonage pays these CLEC's is private data.

From there the call jumps onto a Level3 IP Networks and seeks your little ATA out.

All OUTBOUND calls (whether local or long distance) are immediately "dumped" to a termination partner. Most calls I've monitored are being sent to Global Crossing. However, Vonage probably has numerous SIP Termination partners and it's proxy server/call switch can send your call.

The irony to this is the Vonage quickly gets your OUTBOUND calls onto the good ole PSTN almost immediately. Why? Cause LD termination is cheap! No need to have IP to get cheap.

----------------------------------------End Quote--------------------------

You do not need ANY incoming phone service to call outbound on VOIP. In fact, most of the very inexpensive services you see on the Internet are for outgoing only. Mutual phone, SIPphone, FWD, etc. are examples. There ARE ways to forward incoming calls to these services by getting a free POTS line in another state, like at

So, in the event that I could not have kept my local phone number for some reason, I would have just eliminated any incoming service. What I'm saying is, and it makes sense, that any service that includes unlimited incoming service incurs a monthly charge, while an outgoing plan can be pay-as-you-go.

I own my own ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) which let's me add as many minutes as I want, just like a pre-paid telephone card. That is a "backup" to my cell phone for outgoing. The Vonage device I also have, is locked to Vonage's service only.

That's an administrative decision by your telco and/or the regulatory body, not a technical limitation.

A phone call to the cable company isn't sufficient to order the service?

I wouldn't recommend satellite, the latency is too high for typical VoIP usage. It might work, but the latency would be too annoying for average phone calls.

However, you could go wireless (if there are any carriers in the area). There are a number of wireless technologies, anything from GRPS to point-to-point microwave to RF are all valid options for wireless communication over a distance.

Perhaps not where you live, but it's very practical here.

True, but many/most do. Implementing voicemail is extremely simple, it's mainly just a matter of the storage space required.

Cell phone.

If your need for emergency services access isn't sufficient motivation to keep your phone charged you can buy a backup battery which you leave on a charger at all times -- This will ensure that you always have the capability to make an emergency call if needed.

Depends on where you live. Here in the UK you require a POTS line to get ADSL, whether you use it or not. Cable broadband is technically available without any other services but is very hard to get. By wireless I assume you mean 2-way satellite..? Very expensive and very slow, not viable for a single user.

Here, at any rate, it's not yet viable to do away with an ordinary landline in favour of VoIP. Maybe one day, but not yet.

Ivor

Cable. Which comes in 99% of cases with an analogue phone line included.

Not all VoIP providers (yet) have automatic voicemail. But you haven't answered my question - what do you use for an emergency outgoing call..? Your cellular battery has just gone flat and the local BTS is down anyway.

Ivor

But still the case, so largely irrelevant.

Rarely. It isn't advertised as an available option. You *can* have it, but it's very hard to persuade them to sell it to you, they want you to have phone and TV as well..!

Not available for individual users. Not here, anyway.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to practicalities. If nobody provides the service, you don't get it..!

Personally, I's still be very reluctant to do away with a traditional POTS line, even if I do only keep it for emergencies.

Ivor

[snip]

You missed the part about your local base not being on air. You have no signal. You live in an area where there is no coverage. You have no signal. It's midnight on New Year's Eve and all the cells are clogged with idiots singing to each other. You have no signal.

Get the picture..? Cellular *may* not work, then what do you do when your

78 year old mother is lying on the floor in need of an ambulance..?

Ivor

Plug my cell in to my car for a battery source?

Or your POTS line gets cut. What to do then?

I too missed that part as you can see. I wasn't familiar with BTS. Now looking it up "The name for the antenna and radio equipment necessary to provide wireless service in an area. Also called a base station or cell site."

The odds of BOTH my cable being down AND my cell phone being down at the same time would be truly unbelievable since neither of them has been down for any period of time in the last 5 years I've lived in my current residence.

But we do have a form of POTS here in the States called Lifeline which is also an option.