Western Union's satellite loss [Telecom]

Neal McLain · 2009-10-05T15:37:32+00:00

> Did you ever utilize poles owned by street railroads or > electric railroads? Street railroad power is only 600 V, > but many electrified railroads were 11,000 V.No. The railroad poles I was involved with were owned by mainlinerailroads -- the Chicago and Northwestern and the former Chicago,Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific. The only encounter I've had withstreet railroads was running into abandoned rails buried underpavement when trying to trench across a street.Jim Haynes wrote: > I think most of W.U. pole lines ran along railroads, so they > might not have been where you would have encountered them.Were those polelines actually owned and maintained by WU? Or werethey owned by the railroad?In my encounters with poles located on railroad ROW, the poles wereowned and maintained by the railroad companies. I used a few of themfor CATV cable crossings under permits issued by the railroadcompanies, but I did my best to avoid them because of the exorbitantrental fees (FCC pole-attachment regulations do not apply to railroadpoles) and the bureaucratic hassle of dealing with railroad companies.In situations where I had to cross a railroad, I'd try to locate it ata road crossing where I could support it from existing power poles.Some of the railroad poles I've seen have numerous conductors onseveral crossarms, so I suppose it's possible that some of thoseconductors might have been WU's in rented space. Example: we're on the subject of telegraph lines along railroads, here'sa link to some photos of a replica telegraph poleline located atGolden Spike National Historic Site. McLain***** Moderator's Note *****I'm curious about the technical part of telegraph wiring: please tellus if you know more about how the circuits worked, how far apart therepeaters stations were, etc.Bill HorneModerator

Oct 05, 2009 22 Replies

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Railroads pay taxes on their vehicles.

Roads and bridges were originally privately owned and were taxable. Indeed, a reason the govt took that function over was to save money for road users because they were non-taxable.

Let's note that a road requires a much bigger footprint than a railroad does to move the same amount of goods or people since rail is far more efficient. (Also, airports pay no taxes either being govt owned and supported).

For example, the giant Port Authority of NY & NJ built truck terminals. Being tax exempt (no property or income taxes, and bond earnings were not taxable) gave the P.A. a big cost advantage and private terminals were closed. But the railroads had to keep paying heavy taxes on their terminal facilities. That was not fair.

In addition, roads [consume] extensive public safety services--fire, police, rescue--all of which is paid by the general taxpayer, not the road user. Master road builder Robert Moses felt road users should pay for those expenses.

For sake of argument, let's say the govt decided to take over Western Union when it got into serious trouble in the late 1980s in order to keep its record message business going. At that point WU didn't have to pay taxes on anything anymore. Further, suppose the govt gave it a great deal on NASA services. That would lower its cost and enable it to offer private line services at a cheaper price. I suspect the other carriers would scream bloody murder. But the govt chose to build and support highways a century ago and has been increasing its support ever since.

Taxes were not the only reason private railroads were hurt, but they certainly were a contributing factor.

When the LIRR went broke circa 1950, reformers (including Robert Moses) tried to get tax exemptions for it to save it and keep it running. It was paying a fortune in taxes. But the towns refused. New highways and bridges (built by Moses) were completely exempt from taxes.

****** Moderator's Note *****

In Massachusetts, road users _do_ pay for emergency services: my wife was in an accident a couple of years ago, and the town fire department sent me a $500+ bill for the ambulance ride she took. It did me no good to complain about my taxes: their reply was that the taxes paid for the _capability_, but that my insurance carrier had to cover the _performance_.

Anyway, unless there's more to add, it's time to close this thread.