3 Wire Smokes?

No alarm dealer sells, installs or services AC smoke alarms. Talk to your electrician although he'll probably steer you towards the "cheapest", not necessarily the best.

Unless, of course they are also licensed electricians.

| >

| | | No alarm dealer sells, installs or services AC smoke alarms. Talk to | your electrician although he'll probably steer you towards the | "cheapest", not necessarily the best.

Avoid ioniztion type detectors manufactured by BRK or Kidde. They're crap. We've had good experience with the Firex brand of photo-electrics. You can check them out at:

In Canada it's not a requirement (yet) to employ smoke alarms with battery back-up. I figure you're posting from the US so you're going limit your search to those photo-electric detectors that have battery backup.

Regards, Frank

This is all I was asking for...Thanks

You're welcome. Unlike security alarm installers and service techs, fire prevention companies service fire and safety equipment in commercial, institutional, and residential applications usually on an annual basis in accordance with local codes and ordinances. Property managers that employ our services often request we test the in-suite smoke alarms. When they don't work (or the resident disconnects them because they're always falsing), we replace them. We've had good success with the Firex product line. I use their 484 detectors in my home as well.

Regards, Frank

Quit sucking ass you gormless titfuck.

Everyone knows you are Frank the bAss hater- so quit your stupid ass parade.

BTW- have a nice day.

Love, Bass

There's no such thing as a fire prevention company.

Hmm. Who would want to hire a company whose products fail so miserably?

I can understand the "success" you have. Firex is one of the cheapest brands on the market. By constantly replacing them the dealer can make a bundle. Unfortunately, the customer gets jiminexed having to pay exorbitant service call charges plus having to pay to replace the junk detectors because, as this character admits, they are always falsing.

In line:

Quick. You better call up:

Fairlane Fire Prevention Ltd. and Vancouver Fire Prevention Co. Ltd. to tell them they "don't exist".

I dunno. The last guy said he purchased them "online" and couldn't get the vendor to respond. Something about the email not working and some problem with a phone in Brazil.

Really? I don't see you "suggesting" an alternative.

Actually the only one we've had to replace was defective out of the box. We provided an "advance replacement" on the spot. Can your service "beat" three minutes?

Ummm... We're there to perform the annual test on the fire alarm system. Replacing defective smoke alarms is part of the service. The client is billed for the cost of the detector which includes a "modest 35 percent markup".

You can call yourself Levitating Ladder Man. But that doesn't mean you can levitate ladders. Heck, you can even name your company Airliner-nap-Roller.com but you'll still be a liar.

That's the first honest thing you've ever said.

System Sensor.

Bullshit! You just said you routinely replace them because they constantly false. Besides, you're not a technician anyway.

[resisting temptation to suggest what you are beating]

Wherein you find all those bad out of the box pieces? You're lying again.

Bad out of the box? Bad after one year? Which is it? Make up your mind.

I think "levitating ladders" was your "contribution" to Frank's story. I'll have to Google to verify, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

As for the "rest", it's obvious meaningful discourse isn't something you're at all interested in. Mark's right. The further a "thread" like this goes on and the more people point out your errors, the more you resort to three or four word responses that obviously provide you with your only form of real "enjoyment".

Sad, really.

Regards, Frank

Nothing of value.

My 2 cents.

If you compare and contrast futures of a typical burglar alarm system versus a typical fire alarm system, and the words detection versus prevention, I think prevention is more valid for fire alarm systems. Other than say a man trap on an access control system there is little "prevention" offered form a burglar alarm system, mostly it is for detection. A fire alarm system can not only detect fire, it can offer "prevention" of sorts. A fire alarm system can be designed to close doors (like in nursing homes and hospitals), close dampers, turn off air handlers, recall elevators, and even activate fire suppression systems like Ansul or other chemical fire retardant chemicals in a computer room, or communications closet for example. Although that might not "prevent" the actual fire from starting, it can help to slow or even "prevent" the fire from spreading. How fine a point you want to put on prevention is up to the individual to decide.

With all due respect, Roland, how many fires do you suppose the average fire alarm system prevents? I would say the percentage is less than that of burglaries which a burglar alarm prevents. Think about it for a minute (Cracker will need several days). It's safe to say that some thieves decide not to burglarise a particular place because there's an alarm. A certain percentage stop and retreat upon hearing the alarm.

Fire neither knows nor cares if there's an alarm. It consumes whatever it can, regardless of the existence or activation of a fire alarm.

This may be more a matter of semantics, but IMO those are all responses to a fire once detected -- not prevention of the fire in the first place.

Certainly suppression systems can well, suppress a fire but in most cases the suppression system activates the fire alarm

-- not the other way around. Even an Ansul system is usually activated by heat rather than an alarm system.

Fire doors and dampers close or, in the case of exterior doors, release upon alarm first to prevent the spread of smoke and to speed egress of persons on the premises. They can slow the progress of fire but in the absence of a sprinkler system they don't usually stop the eventual spread of the fire.

Perhaps, but I dislike the use of misleading terminology in the alarm industry. For example, there used to be a character in Hartford who called his alarm company the "Alarm Agency of Hartford County." Technically, one could call an company an agency but the way he phrased it was a deliberate attempt to mislead. Apparently it wasn't all that effective though. He went out of business many years ago.

You mean like when you say you "install" in the present tense or answer a question that could easily mislead someone into believing you still install and service alarm systems for a living? You mean like when you say you ran an alarm company for 24 years? Or how you still "believe" you're "in the trade"?

Must have taken a few pointers from the Bassinator then...

That's "a" company.

Like I said... It's not far off from what you do regularly...

It's not that "effective" here either. Most can see right through your misleading comments, outright lies, innuendo, and dishonesty. That's not rocket science.

Nah... He just changed the name to Bass Burglar Alarms.

In Line.

That depends on whether or not the system activates early enough to prevent an actual flame from developing. Fire "prevention" companies do a great deal more than simply testing whether or not the devices that form part of a fire alarm sytem funciton as intended. You wouldn't know this because you're in "denial" that there's any such thing as a "fire prevention company".

Does a burglar alarm actually "prevent" a burglary? If you believe in the "hype" that's frequently presented in radio advertisements, perhaps. If

*you* say it often enough, maybe. Most of us take steps beyond the installation of a burglar alarm, though. You just sell "parts" so you wouldn't be aware of all this.

Not necessarily. If you can prevent a fire from developing into a full fledged conflagration (through early detection), then you'll minimize the damge to property and the risk to life.

Then you know nothing about the fixed supupression systems that employ agents lilke Halon 1301, CO2 or interface with water based deluge systems. Smoke detectors are most often used and a releasing panel made by such manufacturers as Notifier, Potter, Siemens, and Edwards are usually at the "head end". In some computer rooms, it's often desireable to release the Halon (or the newer so-called "clean agents") before the heat from a flaming fire can damage equipment. The rooms are sealed, air conditioning and power circuits are shut down, and the agent is allowed to "soak" the room it's protecting until fire fighting personnel arrive and are able to identify and deal with the source of the trouble.

The point is that if you can detect the fire in the early stages, you have a better chance of ensuring it doesn't "progress" to something that could become unmanagble, or risk life and property.

It's still not preventing fire.

Occasionally, yes.

I don't believe the BS ads from ADT, Brinks, etc. However, we all know of cases where the thief left without entering because the alarm sounded. There exists statistical evidence as well which suggests that some thieves try to select homes without alarms. To whatever extent that is true there are cases where a specific burglary has been avoided because of the alarms system.

I've probably mentioned it here before but not often. In fact, I consider many professional alarm installations inadequate at best.

Yes. You *walk* to your van, drive off and

*run* to the bank with the first RMR check.

My average system sale is far more comprehensive than anything someone like you is likely to install.

It would be very nice if most professional fire alarms would do that.

Wrong again (as usual). Those are the exception. *Most* fire alarm installations do not include automatic release of anything but the interior door holders.

If you have detected a fire you have not prevented it. You may be able to deal with it sooner but you have not prevented a fire. Perhaps a remedial reading course would help you out.

Sure.

Yet you expect us to believe the "BS" you spout in here almost daily?

That might be the prudent choice, Bass. I'd also suggest not removing your mask until you're well away from the house because some homeowners employ CCTV systems as well.

Yes, of course there is. AlarmForce even has a case study available on their website. I'm not inclined to believe a convicted felon about what burglar alarm providers he "avoids" just as I'm not inclined to believe you. Convicted felons are the biggest bullshit artists.

And I consider your contribution to this group as a whole "inadequate at best".

I've no idea what you're nattering on about. I'm not involved in collecting "RMR". I don't install, service, or monitor burglar alarm systems.

That's actually the first thing you've written here that has an "ounce" of truth because I don't install burglar alarms. I work with fire alarm, access control, and CCTV systems (mostly in multi-residential and commercial high rise buildings).

You mean the ones your customers install don't? Perhaps if you were more familiar with fire alarm system design and function, you might be able to suggest better equipment. I'd suggest a NICET course (or two) might be in order.

The subject to which you responded was "fire prevention" (and more specifically "fire prevention companies" which you stated "didn't exist"). Perhaps if you weren't so interested in one-up-man-ship, you could focus better.

deal with it sooner but you have not prevented a fire.

If you detect a fire in it's early stages, then you can do something about preventing it's spread. Perhaps a remedial reading and fire alarm course would help you out.