What would you do differently if you were to automate a new home from scratch?

Existing or new construction? If existing, do you plan renovation of infrastructure, remodeling?

Construction? US/Canada (wood?) or Hispanoamérica (wood? masonry?)

Self-installed ? Yes, no, some? Self-maintained ? Yes, no, some ?

Number of stories?

Square feet/meters?

Budgets for lighting, "home automation", security, and media/entertainment ?

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Im not sure you can do all this through pc control. I have an extensive AMX system. I have all the stuff that you have and just some other extras that come to mind

1. Wired mailbox sensor
2. Wired flood sensors
3. Wired motion sensors which activate certain cameras
4. Driveway detector
5. Ability to get weather updates to determin various macro events ie sprinkler
6. Pool / Spa control
7. Vacation mode settings, activating video recording, lights etc
8. Bathtub activation
9. Astroclock timed functions
10. Doorbell functions
11. Garage door
12. Telephone/Intercom integration
13. Network
14. HDTV So not sure how much you want to do now or leave for later, but from the above list you can see the list goes on and on. I have all the above and am constantly looking for new ideas. Its a work in progress and I love it. Would love anyone else to add to what they have. ALWAYS LOOKING FOR NEW IDEAS

It is an existing, masonry construction, which will be partially remodelled.

The solution does not have to be self-installed, but should be mostly self-maintained. It has three stories, about 7500 square feet (700 square meters).

The budget for the automation is $15,000 to $20,000 - but that includes the plasma TV's and speaker system.

HTH

I would run tons of wire to every room first, then conduit.

For software, I love my CQC, definitely CQC. Check out the sig below for what i'm doing with it. HVAC, irrigation, security, CD, XM, DVD, TV & CCTV(via a web browser), doorbell, also controllable via Cingular PDA for when i'm not home. I'll probably get RadioRA for lighting with the bonus early next year.

I got a few Fujitsu 3400 10" touchscreen tablet PCs for cheap control throughout the house.

I can get a single program to do the front-end interface and the back-end control. No way can HomeSeer even come close to touching that.

----------------------------------------------------- Note: I am a mere end-user with no financial stake in any products that I may discuss.

My Personal Website w/my Home Automation PC:

last updated 4/11

Hi Carlos

If you want to try something thats free ...have a look at xPL....... Theres currently a plugin for UPB ....Soon will be a plugin for ZWAVE and windows Media Centre check out these links if interested........

HTH Frank

The key need is wiring which is typically most efficiently done as part of construction or remodeling. I own or have owned five brick (and)or stone houses. My approaches have ranged from building wood and plaster-board walls inside the masonry structure (house within a house) to chiseling pathways for wiring in stone walls. All were much harder than working in the typical US and Canadian stud-wall construction generally assumed in discussions in this newsgroup (I trimmed the newsgroups to comp.home.automation).

And of the subsystems that you are considering, the most important from several perspectives in my opinion is the lighting. Power Line Control (PLC) lighting systems such as X-10 (and derivatives such A-10, PCS and Lightolier Compose), INSTEON and UPB and those using radio frequency (RF) (Lutron RadioRA Zigbee, Z-wave) are intrinsically less robust than lighting that is "hard wired". RF systems are particularly problematic in masonry houses because masonry attenuate the RF signal and sometimes includes steel mesh or other reinforcement that further attenuates.

There are two major variants of hard-wired lighting ( i.e., not PLC, not RF) that you should consider, namely 1) those that have the dimming modules in each room with hard-wired low-voltage control wire to each dimmer and 2) those that have the dimming modules in one or more central locations as well as having low-voltage control wiring to the wall-mounted controls.

(Mostly) proprietary hard-wired lighting systems:

Brightan Systems

Clipsal Centralite Day Light Controls Futronix LEAX Leviton Lightolier Lite Touch Lutron Nexlight NSI/Luma-Net Tridonic ATCO Vantage Controls

One of the proprietary systems with an architecture/topology that is also adaptable to non-proprietary systems, and therefore enjoying a degree of "future-proofing", is Centralite

Jist my own perspective.

Also google DMX512 and(or) DMX-512 for the world standard in stage/theatrical/entertainment hard-wired lighting that also has applicability to architectural and HA lighting.

There other standard protocols (eg Lonworks/LonTalk, DALI, BACnet ). I'd start out by determining which of the hard-wired alternatives you want to explore and which are supported by installers in your country and region. Then design the installation of low-voltage wiring to be done at the same time as the installation of the lighting wiring. (In any case, if you have

3-phase, 4-wire AC power, make sure that you run separate neutrals to each load to avoid flashes or flickering caused by common-neutral cross-talk.) That could take up some/much/most/all of your budget depending on how you proceed (do-it-yourself, electrician, home-automation specialist) and how extensive (Does every load need to be automated, or just some?). Getting the wiring (and fiber-optic) infrastructure done well may save much frustration and additional expense later on if you have retrofit new systems or replace compromises that didn't work out.

You may decide to contact a

or representative. They can do most anything related to home automation, 'wherever enough money is found'.

...Marc Marc_F_Hult

I would defenitly go to Konnex or Lonworks

With a bus system you don't need to all that wire, you just have a bus and put devices on it one after the other.

"Standardisation:

Last week it was confirmed to us that the media independent layers of the KNX standard have been positively voted to become ISO/IEC standard

14543. In other words, the core of the KNX standard - born as an industrial standard, matured to become a European standard - has now made it to the top spot in international standardisation, an ISO/IEC standard. More information regarding to the ISO/IEC 14543 in September."

I think you're going to find that $15K-$20K is not going to cut it for the level of control you're seeking. While it is true that you can find a lot of stuff out there and kluge it together, to get a truly well thought-out integrated system that does all the things you're looking to control, you're realistically looking at a system that's going to come in around $50K-$100K.

this figure includes wiring and all the work to get it going.

If those figures are just not attainable, I'd suggest scaling back the project a bit. Try to get the core of the system together and add on the pieces as you go.

I'm an AMX programmer and designer and I work for a company that does very high-end homes. Our systems go for $300K to $500K depending upon what's going on. I have an AMX automation system in my home that I've cobbled together over the years. I do a lot of shopping on ebay and whatnot for the various things I need. I save a lot of money for myself since I can program it myself as well as install a lot of the components.

For the kind of things you're trying to do, I'd look into AMX or Crestron. They're pretty much the only game in town that's reliable and tested with the kinds of things you're trying to do. You can find all kinds of things out there that are computer based that can do similar things. We haven't found anything that can offer the kind of performance and reliability that the dedicated systems do. (and beleive me, we've looked at them all)

This probably sounds like a sales pitch, but trust me, it's not. We'd love to have an alternative, but the other systems I've seen mention in this forum never stand up to what the AMX/Crestron systems can do. I'm hoping that some day they will.

Best of luck!

What moderately priced (

Hi Mark! Software for home automation in KNX: Elvis -

- - from eibmarkt - are many others. If you want to go for mechanisms, then have a look at: one doesn't costs around 800, but look at his functionalities: If you want a low price instalation, go for the "universal interface" of devices as inputs - if you don't find them, just do a search with that expression:) : also for these: 75342001

In the end, the prices for these articles are not as low as x10, but, like AMX or Creston, this is not bricolage!

Cheers!

We started the conversation with the Carlos, the original poster, with questions and answers so that we would better understand his needs and constraints. From what I surmise, he is in the Western Hemisphere, and his house therefore probably uses 110VAC for lighting.

The solutions you suggest are Euro-centric (220VAC, CE) and not used widely used in US, Canada (110VAC, UL), Mexico, and Central and South America (if at all) partly because this region of the world generally uses 110VAC (not

220VAC). The konnex.org site does not list any partners, installers, or national sites in US, Mexico or Central America and few if any active groups in South America.

Also, the topology for EIB/Konnex dimmed lighting generally requires both AC wiring home-runned to a DIN rack and low-voltage control. If that wiring configuration is in fact practical for Carlos, there are 110VAC choices that cost 1/2- 1/3 as much with comparable quality that also have North American regulatory approvals (which as far as I know, EIB/Konnex does not).

So while EIB/Konnex may be a standard in Europe, it is essentially irrelevant to discussion of the original question in my opinion.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

On 8 Aug 2006 08:24:00 -0700, "Carlos" posted:

I would NOT use X10 protocol for starters....! Here's a quiz to see if you are good enough to go to Heaven -->

Marc is right. The house I want to automate is in Mexico City (110 VAC), and I travel frequently to the US, so it would be better to have an American equipment supplier.

BTW, thanks to all of you that have been helping out. I am still looking into all technologies that have been suggested... so many of them...

So far, I like Crestron and AMX, but I am somewhat hesitant because of their lack of integration to Windows Media Center Edition. I believe Microsoft is putting a lot of development effort in MCE, specially now that, as I read, Apple wants to release their own Media Center software next year. And to have specialized propietary software (like the one for Creston and AMX) makes you somewhat dependant on the original supplier.

Then again, perhaps I am somewhat confused. Please give me your thoughts.

Carlos

Hi Carlos

CBUS should be soon available in the states and thats what i use for lighting check out the link....Its a hardwired system.....there are also wireless kit avialable.......

I mentioned in a previous post that xPL may be suitable for your needs and its free....Theres also a new xPL MCE Plugin which has just been released... check out this link.... Frank

This is not accurate. The Windows Media Server does have an external control protocol. (so does Apple's iPod for that matter.) There are several flavors of media servers (both hardware and software) out there. Most all of them have some form of external control protocol. They almost all allow an external control of the playback transports, media selection and return feedback of their current playback state as well as Meta data for the media stored on the server.

EX: The Fifth Element, Runtime 1:24, Release Date 1998, etc....

It's a matter of programming. That's the thing about AMX or Crestron: you're going to need to get them programmed. These systems are not programmed like a universal remote. they are programmed in a similar manner as a computer.

Some other meida servers to look at are things that use the XIVA server. Things like Elan's ViaDJ! use the XIVA.

AMX makes a pretty big system call the MAX. It's a computer based server system that can handle multiple HD streams (up to 8 simultaneously) with digital audio. It has tons of storage (up to several terabytes) that are stored in a type-5 disc array.

It is a beefy computer with a Linux OS. The MAX MMS-900 can hold about

900 DVD's and/or 22,500 Audio CDs.

Anyway, hope that helps. ejm

Thanks. Apparently Clipsal is adding (or has had, and I didn't realize it)

110 VAC dimmers:

may be other manufacturers of 110 C-Bus dimmers also.

I hope that C-Bus does well in expansion 110-land.

But there is no hint of that expansion on the Clipsal web site as best I can see:

which lists Australia Indonesia Paupa New Guinea China Korea Singapore Greece Malaysia South Africa Hong Kong New Zealand Thailand India Pakistan United Kingdom

and not US, Canada, Mexico, Central or South America.

Many products, established track-record, multiple manufacturers, and flexible design:

From

:

" All Input and Output devices are wired to any point in the C-Bus Network by a twisted pair cable, which carries all communications between the Units.

" The C-Bus connections may be looped from unit to unit or a branch can be made at any point. This ?free topology? structure provides a flexible system layout. New units can be added anywhere, at any time, without re-configuration.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

About your point over the price of knx devices, you must take into account that this is an open standard system, with 97 different companies, producing certified "failure proof" devices. It is not a system/product owned by one company at whom the client will be attached to the rest of his life!

As for the 230 volts issue, yes, if Carlos is from Mexico I would advise him to take a look a Lonworks, also a very powerful and future proof system.

Cheers

Yup ;-) One of the reasons that I've worked to adapt DMX512 to home use. There are Do-It-Yourself DMX-512 gear of all sorts. Is this also true of knx or are their licensing issues (there are intrinsically none with DMX).

In my previous post, I mentioned Lonworks/Lontalk as a protocol, but I am ignorant about Lonworks-compatible lighting dimmers suitable (in term of cost and other factors) for residential use.

Can you provide example of residential 110 VAC Lonworks/Lontalk-compatible dimmers?

Thanks .. Marc Marc_F_Hult

Hi Marc

I believe Clipsal stuff will be sold via Square D ....It was suppose to be released this July but its probably been delayed.....Heres a link to Square D that may help.

Frank