New Home Construction

Hmm. That's what I get for not reading back through the thread before replying. :^)

As to fishing through knockouts, it's actually not much of a problem. If you avoid making horizontal runs, you only have to drop the cable through the top or bottom of the wall. Properly planned, you can almost completely avoid horizontal pulls. On retrofits, you pretty much have to do vertical drops only.

That's good advice for any time you're drilling or cutting. However, IME when drilling through wood spade bits throw no more nor less saw debris than ordinary stick bits.

Having wired systems into existing homes with four or more levels I disagree. Conduit is a plus on multi-story runs but it's not an absolute must. If you do opt for conduit, make certain you provide pulling elbows, junction boxes or LB's at least every 180º of bends -- 90º if the runs are long. Also, do NOT fill the conduit with more than a 40% cross-section with copper. There are conduit fill charts available online at several cable manufacturers' websites, as well as in the NEC manual.

You noticed it's North Carolina but nobody seems to have noticed it's on four floors. I think conduit is a must.

The other thing I am not hearing much about here is firebreaks, which are often irregular in height and a real PITA to get around.

Also in Calif, textured walls are very common and if you do have to open a hole to fish things through, matching the texture is a major pain.

Lastly smurf tubes are cheap. If you are building, placing them in walls is a good idea.

Not with a long auger bit. Works wonders for drilling up/down through them.

True, but textured walls are often the contractors way to justify not having decent plaster finishers on the job.

No argument there. It's just not an either/or proposition. Balancing between the cost of adding them and having them in the wrong locations versus not installing them at all and just fishing the wires as needed. But if you can really plan them right and can absorb the added costs then conduits are certainly VERY helpful.

A *riser* conduit, certainly. But in-room conduits, that's an added cost that can be avoided. Having conduit space that runs top to bottom through the whole house is a TREMENDOUSLY good idea. Pulling a pair of 3" conduits into a work box inside closets or something will make any future wiring efforts considerable less of a hassle. Either as a single 'stack' leading up through the house or up to each floor as is convenient. Some houses will have a wall that lends itself to a single one. But for others I'd be fine with having ones that run upward to the most logical place for that floor. As Robert points out, you want to be careful about bends. Better to have more than one stack dropping down into an unfinished basement space (or easily accessed joist cavity) than to have stuff twising and turning through too many bends.

-Bill Kearney

Heh and if you REALLY want to make debris, use a Rotozip. Those things are a pain in the ass to clean up after on anything other than new construction. A simple hand drywall saw makes NOWHERE near the mess.

Then it seems that you ("nobody") haven't read the thread, are confusing "floor" with "story" or both.

Definition: "Townhouse 2. A usually single-family house of two or sometimes three stories that is usually connected to a similar house by a common sidewall. "

Our 3 (or 2-1/2) story house has 5 floors depending on what you count;-)

Is there some assertion that you'd like to make with respect to building codes or NEC or physics or aesthetics or economics or something else to explain what you mean by "conduit is a must"?

Marc Marc_F_Hult

The concern I expressed was all about hidden nails. If you can't see *both* sides of the project you're drilling it's far safer using a twist drill. A "paddle bit" will bind on a nail and even if you're using moderate pressure and speed, most drills generate enough torque to cause you serious injury. I know of *no* other professional installer (even a former one) that uses(ed) a paddle bit to drill into a wall space. Your experience may have been good so far but I just don't believe in taking chances. If I miss even one day "at the counter", my customers throw fits. ;-))

Marc,

I doubt the gentleman has ever wired an existing or even a new structure due to his unfortunate physical problems. In any case, his assertion that conduit is a must is wrong.

Someone else once mentioned using a roto-zip to do speaker cut-outs. IIRC, the gentleman suggested taping a clear plastic bag to the wall and running the tool from within. I imagine that would help but I never had time to do all that during the job. I always used a keyhole saw. I find that a damp towel sitting on the drop cloth just below where I'm working is very helpful as well.

Yep.

I have two ways to get past them. As another gentleman mentioned, a long D'Versibit or Canadian Flexidrill will punch right through a firestop. Alternatively, if you still have some of the paint and the wall is smooth you can route the sheetrock and the fire stop, slip the cable past it and slip a small metal plate over the route before spackling. This is more time consuming but you normally only need to do it in a few places per home.

The best place to open an access hole is behind the baseboard or ceiling trim board. With a little patience these can be removed and replaced with no sign that anything was done. I and several others have posted detailed instructions on the procedure several times both here and in a certain "other" newsgroup.

They're OK as long as you're certain you'll never need to change a location later.