Hello all!
I'm VERY new to the whole home automation field. For the moment, I am just looking at using wall panels to connect to a central PC and play MP3's in any wired room.
Can someone point me to some systems that make this possible. Eventually, I would like to scale up to use the wall panels to control playback of video, but that is a project for another day.
Thanks!
Steve.
1) Something like a Russound system with keypads, and J Rivers Media Center on your PC, with the PC connected to the Russound over serial
2) One of those pre-rolled systems, i think squeezebox/slingbox do something like this but i'm not sure.Neither of those 2 will scale to video, though, so there's:
3) a software-based solution where you use the Russound as above, but rather than keypads use something like a Fujitsu 3400 tablet PC ($160 on eBay) that you wallmount to control playback throughout the house.My 3400 wallmounted:
Steve, Your questions are very common and speak to a continuing problem with AV/Home Control issues.
"How cheap can I get in? Can I get in cheap and later upgrade?"
There are a variety of ways to go about distributing your PC audio playback throughout your home.
Elan makes some great stuff. The Russound solution is also good. Systems like that are somewhat 'closed' in that they don't allow for much customization and upgrading.
The question is how far do you want to take this? I find that most people don't have any idea of the level of control you can have. Also, some people want to control too much and the system gets impracticle and expesive fast.
what I'd do is sit down and brainstorm about the things you wish to control and write them down. Then look around and see what systems will do or can expand to do what you want.
As with all things AV, it's only a matter of money. My clients routinely spend aver $300K to autoamate their homes. (I'm an AMX programmer and AV designer) They control things like lighting,security,HVAC,whole-house A/V distribution systems,Pool/hot tub controls,Gate and door locks, IP networking, computers, etc...
Here's an example of what they do with all this. One client uses the system as an alarm clock. (they have 7" color touch panels in every room) She sets the time on the 'virtual alarm clock' on the panel at night. The house climate controls adjust the room temperatures based upon the time of year, weather conditions and customer personal tastes about 20 minutes before wake up time. at wake up time, the lighitng in the room begins a slow fade up over 5 minutes, the audio system comes on quietly with some classical music. Once they get out of bed and turn on the bathroom lights, the system then automatically switches to the radio station and their bedroom TV switches on CNN.
Is this silly? I dunno. My personal system does similar things but I'm not so interested in having it turn on my radio or TV.
You don't have to get that nutty with control, nor spend that much. Most folks just want to distribute some audio or video around the house. Just be honest with yourself and your needs and pick a system that will go to that point.
Later, ejm
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:
IVB/ohno
The Russound system looks like what I am looking for. At least the wall panels are perfect. I like the look and they are in my price range (I was thinking $100 - $200 each). The only problem I see is that from what I have read (if someone knows differently, please correct me) those wall panels only work with Russound media servers. What I'm looking for is to be able to use those wall panels or a similar type with any Windows PC. I'm assuming that for a system like this to work via any Windows PC I would need at least a special type of expansion card and some software, but I would prefer that to buying a receiver.
At the same time, you've given me quite a lot to think about. What are my ultimate goals of this system? Ultimatelty, years down the road I might look at a system that allows me to receive video from different sources in each room, as well as environmental and security controls, but for the short term, the distribution of MP3's, radio, possibly XM, in each room is project enough.
Thanks again for the help!
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:
Steve,
Oxmoor is a company who for years has put audio into big places, like hotels.
As many as 8 input modules, in addition to their router's own input - allow for 9 different sources. Analog, or digital (coax or optical.)
The system is not Don't buy today!
They're coming out with two new systems aimed at lower price points.
I'm expecting them to announce one of them in the next couple of weeks.
The other is probably close behind...
To give you an idea: The ZON system (at MSRP) costs about $1k per room. They've priced the new systems at $500/per room, and $250/room...
I have no idea what this'll look like, but I expect excellent quality.
The ZON's sound quality is higher than that of the Russound, from the reviews I have read. I have not listened to them both.
After the first of the year they can get back to the ZON system's developments, etc. Always making improvements...
I am impressed at the quality of the ZON products. All very well engineered. Much thought went into this stuff. They spent years developing it prior to it's release. And that was years ago.
And on a separate note...
Have you seen Rudeo?
Rudeo is software for a PDA to control your media center, or Windows Media Player.
It can also control external UPnP client boxes... Wireless Media Players...
These could be input sources for any whole-house audio system.
I really like Rudeo on my wireless PDA. I've even run it on multiple PDAs at the same time. I could hit pause - my buddy hits play... I adjust the volume - they skip to the next track, etc.
All in real time, and very responsive!
I haven't tried the IR remote functionality... yet.
I sincerely hope this helps open your eyes further to the possibilities.
Eyes wide open, now wait to go shopping! Half-a month isn't long to wait, just in case the new Oxmoor stuff is cool!
Jack :)
Products like ours are pretty much what it sounds like you are looking for. We can provide the front end for your on-disc or changer based media, and provide multiple zones of audio from the PC, which you can either hard wire to specific zones or run into a matrix switcher to allow selection of which zone you want to pipe were, and we provide control over all the hardware and provide the touch screen interfaces to control it all. Now product is really oriented towards pros, so it's not an end user out of the box solution. It requires you to put in some elbow grease or hire someone to do it. But in return you get the flexibility to create a solution along the lines you want.
Plenty of our customers do this kind of scenarios. Put a 4 channel M-Audio card in the box, each of which looks like a separate audio device, and you can play audio from disc out each channel. Provide a touch screen in each zone and you can browse the database and select what you want to hear. It makes even more sense if you then branch out and use the automaition features of the product, since you are then getting more bang for the buck.
Here are some sample interfaces to show what kind of stuff you can do:
------------------------------------- Dean Roddey Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
Yep, CQC and the Fujitsu 3400 is what I use for exactly the reason Steve mentions - no desire to use their keypads as they ONLY work with Russound media servers [which are $3500]. With a 3400 and CQC, I can control anything I want. MP3/radio/XM is easy, you'll be done with that quickly if you've already got all the equipment.
With the 3400, it's a full PC [$160 gets you a 10" P3-400 touchscreen]. That means no special card needed, just the CQC software for fully distributed, networkable HA & HT control.
I can also use my Cingular wifi PDA with the CQC DotNetViewer, but honestly I just use that for when i'm not at home to check on the security/HVAC/help inlaws turn a-v on&off if they're having issues.
So which of our intrepid electronics gurus is going to invent the dual-gang mount touchscreen UPnP renderer? I've decided that's what I need. :)
Option for a third gang amp for in-wall speakers, but with a built-in line out. Some of us already have stereos in most rooms...
Have you created a sample DVD of your program in action? I'd pay $5 or $10 to take a closer look at CQC.
Could a novice create something "artistic" in CQC like an emulation of the old juke-box style of tabbed pages for song selections?
-- Bobby G.
I'd kill for a few of these.... single gang, but I guess you could mount two side by side.
Neil
We don't have a DVD. But there is an online tutorial (under the Learn tab, then Quick Tutorial.) It's a hands on process that walks you through a simple installation and configuration of the product.
That would be tough. We can't make people write code, so the interface system is created using 'widgets' that you drop onto the screen and configure using our interface designer. So you are somewhat limited in terms of what widgets are available and how they work, and there's not a tabbed page type widget.
------------------------------------- Dean Roddey Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
yeah, i've pseusdo-drooled over those RADI/O's for a while now. They're nice and clean, but it's just too dang small. Here's my PPC interfaces, which are
240x320 for a 4.25"x2.83" screen. The RADI/O are even smaller (160x240 and 2.7" portrait), even 2 of them would be ludicrous not to mention the inherent browsing issues keeping them in sync. I only use them on the Cingular phone when i'm out of the house. I cannot imagine being forced to using something that tiny on a regular basis.PPC screens:
Whilst not as good as a DVD, there's a few of us with threads over on the CQC forum that showcase our interfaces. If you see my thread, then to see it "in actin" would be pretty boring as you'd just see me press buttons.
My main interface thread:
But, there's plenty of those too:
That's a pretty good deal for the money. A PIII-400's got plenty of horsepower for HA purposes - especially when used as just a "smart screen."
How is the screen? Visible in daylight or when viewed at an angle? Lots of them available on Ebay. I just bought one to see for myself!
-- Bobby G.
Jist so others do not misunderstand, the Fujitsu 3400 tablet PC is *not* a touch screen in the conventional sense. If you touch it with your finger, or a celery stalk, or a pencil, nothing useful happens. It requires a special wireless electronic pen.
Standard PC's and PC-XT's with standard-issue PC monitors were usable with a wired pen even when they first introduced way in the 1980's. That concept never caught on. My day-in, day-out laptop is a Toshiba Portege Tablet PC with an electronic pen. I find that the pen is useful for some special, non-HA purposes but awkward at best for general purpose use. YMMV.
The subject of this thread is "Multimedia" which implies video. So it might be useful to point out that full-motion, full-screen video can be a an unsatisfactory experience on a PC based on the PIII-400 as used in the Fujitsu 3400 tablet PC. This is especially true if the PC is also trying to do something else such as HA which sometimes requires near-real-time response.
But yes, a Fujitsu 3400 tablet PC has about the same horsepower as a VIA mini-ITX EPIA-5000 and can be purchased used for about the same price as just a mini-ITX motherboard alone (that is, without the case, power supply, battery, screen, hard drive, keyboard, and pen that one also gets when buying a Fujitsu 3400 through a vendor using eBay).
The use of laptops as a HA engine has been common for many years and may be helped by increased standardization of notebook/laptop components by Intel, ASUS, Compal, Aopen and others. Watch for upcoming standardized "Verified by Intel" (VBI), "Intel Interchangeability Initiative Common Building Block" (CBB) notebook components,
Here's a good write up on laptop CBB and VBI related to home energy and control
Marc,
I don't believe this is correct. Based on the manual on the Fujitsu web site, the digitizer on the 3400 is a resistive type, and the pen is *not* active, just a mechanical stylus. This should mean that any pressure on the digitizer will activate it.
Eric
touchscreen].
Cool! I stand corrected. My (more expensive, newer) Toshiba has an electronic pen. Shows the consequences of pontificating on a product one doesn't actually use ...;-)
I presume now that the 'pen' is probably there because a finger is too large for most of the originally intended purposes (based on my experiences 800 x 600 industrial LCD touch screen Thinkpads).
My wife and I have gone back an forth on the touch screen thing, and at present the plan is for me to re-install the 21" glass-screened touch-screen monitor as part of the final phases of the kitchen rebuild. In general, I find small touch screens to be less practical in reality than in theory. For anything but a few quick pokes, holding ones hand up to a screen is awkward and uncomfortable with or without a pen. The large monitor has the virtue of also serving as the 'TV' and of also having a foolproof front-panel mechanical switch of the inputs (Computer or McNeil-Lehrer), so it may have a semi-permanent home in the kitchen. The glass screen means I can clean it without damage after I touch it with my dough-covered fingers.
.... Marc Marc_F_Hult
Part of my confusion is "loads of learned lumber" from when I researched tablet PC's before buying a new Toshiba Portege Tablet. Microsoft's specification for "Tablet PC" _requires_ a pen (or it isn't a tablet PC) that has also has to have the equivalent of mouse functions. Since an electronic pen is required, most/all other tablets also use electronic positioning.
Someone who actually has a Fujitsu 3400 might clarify:
1) what functions are on the electronic pen. 2) whether XP-SP2 (tablet version and non-tablet version) can be installed without breaking the touchscreen driver (XP makes RDP available). 3) whether there is a useable screen mouse so that one can actually use the touch screen without the pen. 4) full-screen, full-motion video performance.In general, the Fujitsu 3400's sound like a spectacular deal but I'd want to know about how well the resistive touch screens hold up on (especially) the used/surplus stuff that is available. In my experience, a touch screen that is intermittent or has bad spots is as frustrating as an X10 switch that doesn't switch. Typical LCD touch screens are at least easy to permanently 'fix' with one hard rap with the knuckles -- a 'fix' that just gets you bruised on a CRT-based touch screen ;-)
(I'm personally holding the line that new devices need to be 1) RDP-enabled and 2) provide acceptable full-screen, full-motion video. I've had IBM industrial 10" 800x600 LCD touch screen Pentium-based PC's ( like the 3400) running HA stuff for about 6 years. The ~4X speed increase of the Fujitsu compared to what I have isn't a large enough boost to warrant the upgrade and the IBM cases are more compact and less ugly than that of the 3400. )
... Marc Marc_F_Hult
I have 2 of them, one used several times per day for whole-house audio.
My wife actually put a ballpoint pen on top as it allowed me to design smaller buttons and her to more accurately hit them rather than a fingernail. I haven't taken the stylus out of the socket in months, then again it's just this cheapo crappy plastic thingey (i think)
Hence:
Again, I *think* it's not an electronic pen supplied with it. Looks like a cheap piece of plastic crap.
I have XP-Pro on one of them but I never installed the handwriting driver cuz I use it with CQC so I don't need it. Hence, I don't actually know.
Not sure what you mean by this.
I've never tried it, I know there's a post somewhere on the CQC forums
Mine's incoming today, at least according to UPS, so we'll see later today whether the "Fuj" does what I want it to. The plan is to provide, as you do, MP3 service at my desk presenting an image of what's on the external cameras. While that's technically "full motion video" it's really pretty static and any artifacts wouldn't be as disturbing as they would be on a task like DVD playback.
Can you point me to more screen shots of how you've laid out your screens? I've been thinking in large areas, no smaller than 1/8 of the total screen size but it sounds as if you're close to pixel resolution!
I'm really excited by the prospects - low power consumption and low space consumption combined with touch-screen input. Kewl!
-- Bobby G.
Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.