a stupid X10 sprinkler question

i'm a complete neophite who just learned about the X10 and the garden sprinkling capabilities thereof.

Having browsed a number of threads discussing products like Rain8 and X10 in general, i'm beginning to get some idea; however, all of the X10 discussions and all of the product descriptions i've seen focus on the digital end of it, and none address the water/pipe end of it. While the latter may be trivial for seasoned auto-irrigators, I am at a complete loss about what to buy/do beyond the device such as Rain8.

Q1: Do I simply connect my multiple (electric) valves to Rain8 and then assign X10 addresses to the corresponding controls in Rain8? (Valves such as

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, for example). If so, is there a compatibility issue? Are the required valves toggled off/on by means of X10-protocol signal or by presence/absence of current? If by the latter, does something like Rain8 supply the 24V to the valves ... i realize, I may be completely off here. Are there any sophisticated valves that, in the manner of a rheostat, open up to various pressure levels, as specified (water flow diminuation, equivalent to dimming of lights)?

Q2: Regarding the 2-way communication involving "confirmation signals" mentioned here --

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: is the confirmation signal a standard part of the X10 protocol, or is it a feature exclusive to this gadget? Furthermore, is it possible to query an X10 device to receive data? In other words, can something like an X10 rain gauge (is there such a thing?) respond to a query by sending back rain data? Can devices send back their current state, on request (whether they are on or off)?

Q3: at this point I am thinking I'd need to install a water pipe manifold, attach the multiple valves to it, and connect each valve's electrical cable to the Rain8 (the cable happens to at least *look like* the 1/8th" audio plug). Am I way off?

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the newbism -- I can't find a comprehensive A-Z schematic that lists *all* the components involved and how they interface. (My needs are to water a few zones in an average home.)

Andrew

Reply to
hawk007
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oops! that was supposed to be:

Do I simply connect my multiple valves **electrically** to Rain8

(the valves attach to the pipes, hoses or the manifold, and are electrically connected to the Rain8)

Reply to
hawk007

Most of us were in that catagory at one time.

Our Rain8 has four 24VAC switches controllable by X10. It receives 24VAC from a transformer, and then switches that power to one irrigation valve at a time. This one has two programable cycles that can be initiated by a X10 command, and also allows individual ON/OFF control of each valve by X10 commands. The Rain8 controls the standard $10 irrigation valves available at your local building supply warehouse.

Most X10 devices are listen only, but there are some specialized devices that provide acknowledgement or data in return. I don't know about an X10 rain gauge, but there are X10 thermostats. For our irrigation I do open loop control based on time of year and outside temperature. And then I have a Leviton 16400 to kick in an extra cycle whenever things look a little dry. Our back yard has about 3 inches of topsoil over lava, so it drys out VERY quickly. The garden drip irrigation must run several times a day during hot weather to keep the plants from wilting.

Sounds like you are on the right path. The valves have that plug, and the manifold should provide the means of connection between those plugs and the underground multiconductor cable coming from your Rain8.

The Rain8 works great for us, and should for you too.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

Thanks!

You are the celebrity who just created the breakthrough XTB signal booster, aren't you!

I had browsed some postings about the XTB, and it is, of course, reassuring, for those having second thoughts about investing into the decades-old X10 technology for the first time.

I have only a vague understanding of electrical circuits, but i did wonder about reception across the two (110V?) circuits that a home normally has. Does the X10 signal reception by a device on one line worsen significantly when it is broadcast from a device on the other line? I realize this may vary from house to house, but perhaps there is something inherent in the double-line circuit that impedes the signal across the two subcircuits?

When I set up my X10 system, i'll share any interesting findings here, but, i'm curious if the XTB is an absolute necessity, in such cross-line situations. (I'd order one sooner if that's the case ;-)

Also, the "underground multiconductor cable" you mention was new info; i'll do some research about it, but if anyone has any other tips (caveats? such as when moles/voles are on the premises) regarding this underground cable or anything else, they are, of course, very welcome.

andrew

Reply to
Andrew

Just realized that was very americentric of me. Apologies to the rest of the world.

(also, apologies for following up my own posts twice in this thread!)

andrew

Reply to
Andrew

Reply to
Dave Houston

It often can. When I was installing a number of X10 items in my house, they all worked through the summer, then stopped working in the winter. It was pretty bizarre, I thought, until I got to thinking about just that thing.

With my AC on, the 240v ac compressor motor provided coupling across the two "phases" of the house. The solution for me was a passive coupler plugged in to my dryer outlet. Haven't had any problems since. But it's a small house. :)

Reply to
E. Lee Dickinson

No celebrity. Just another contributor like some other folks here. We have been using X10 with near 100% reliability since the 70's and I wanted to help some others increase the reliability of their systems too.

There is a lot of "old technology" we rely on in our everyday lives. X10 has worked almost 40 years, and there is no basic reason why it can't continue to work for years to come. Sure, there are newer systems with higher data rates, but we don't know what problems they will run into over coming decades. I still think X10 gives you a lot of value for your dollar.

When X10 devices are on both phases, a coupler is generally necessary to propagate the 120KHz X10 signal from one phase to the other. Otherwise, the signal on the opposite phase is usually much lower amplitude than the "transmitting" phase. The coupler will distribute the transmitted energy across both phases.

Something like the XTB isn't needed in a relatively small house with a clean X10 environment. Even before the XTB, we had acceptable signals here after taking precautions to eliminate most X10 interference sources. We had one cranky light with a compact fluorescent bulb that occasionally would not turn off. It has not failed to operate correctly since installing the XTB.

I'm assuming your valve manifold will be out in the yard. The building supply centers sell multiconductor cable designed for this application in the sprinkler section. In my case, I ran it a few inches underground, and through a small hole drilled through the concrete foundation just below the ground level. Then it runs to the Rain 8 located conveniently near an outlet for the 24V transformer and TW523 interface.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

As you doubtless know, X-10 was reportedly conceived by Pico Electronics of Glenrothes, Scotland in 1975, developed 1976-1977, and first sold in the US by Radio Shack in 1978. So you seem to have added ~10 years to X-10's longevity prematurely. No doubt it will get there in a another decade tho ... ;-)

That said, I agree completely with your observation and live surrounded by examples.

My house has (oh fer shame! ) manual SPST switches (remember them ?) that I have no plans to replace.

And a turn-of-the-century "gasolier" combination gas and electric lamp that hangs in the dining room.

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But I wouldn't want to go back to relying exclusively on gas lighting and candles.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

I stand corrected. I thought it was the early 70's. You reminded me of the few years we used those dang mechanical timers before switching to X10. Somewhere packed away in a box downstairs is the Radio Electronics article that first described the X10 system.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

Yup ;-) and I sometimes still use them "dang mechanical timers" ...

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

Thanks for all the informative replies.

Regarding the TW523:

Could one use the CM11A in place of the TW523 in the above configuration, without forfeiting any functionality of the TW523? In other words, are the features of the CM11A a superset of those of TW523 ?

Reasons I am not 100% certain, even after reading comparison posts that suggest that CM11A is newer and more comprehensive:

1) The SmartHome web page with Rain8 details -
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- says that the device requires either the "PowerLinc" (described as a TW523 device) or their "TW523". There is no mention of their CM11A device as a device compatible with Rain8.

2) In your reply post (quoted above) you specifically mentioned the TW523, rather than a broader category that would also include the CM11A.

Thanks

Andrew

Reply to
Andrew

I believe the Rain8 needs a powerline interface, such as a TW523 or PSC05. It can certainly be controlled through the powerline by a CM11A. I don't know how you could control it directly from a CM11A without using a powerline interface.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

I called SmartHome four hours ago and got the following info from their rep:

Using a combination of certain modules as well as "phantom addressing" (this, apparently, the key ingredient), one can achieve an on-request rain status reporting.

The modules needed are: The rain sensor itself:

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The Powerflash Interface:
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And the 1132CU PowerLinc Controller -
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According to the rep, the RS should be connected to the Powerflash module, for triggering an X10 signal (also consistent with the info on the above web page -- hidden by default, click "Details & Specifications").

However, the Powerflash being one-way also, these two are not enough. As I understood it, the signal should be further relayed from Powerflash to the 1132CU controller, which toggles off/on some designated "phantom" X10 address -- (e.g., "G7").

It is this phantom address that can be queried for status, (I presume) via the 1132CU. This allows one to know, at any time, if the rain sensor is on or off.

I am relating the general idea here, and I'm not sure exactly about all the details.

Comments are welcome. How viable/plausible is the above?

Somewhat related: I have yet to ascertain the necessity to get the

1132CU controller in place of the 1140 (
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) - the only difference the rep could verify was the port ( USB vs. serial ), but also said that, because the 1132CU was their own product, he could assure me that it works in the above configuration, but could not vouch for the 1140 -- i'll have to call the relevant manufacturer on this)

TIA

Andrew

Reply to
Andrew

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