Need to extend an ethernet LAN over phone company wire less than mile

I am not very familiar with all the terminology. I have two locations less than a mile apart in a rural area. I assume the phone company could (if I knew how/what to ask) make appropriate splices to give me two or more pair of copper between the two locations. Is that what a "leased line" is? Or does that go through the exchange?

Assuming I could get this copper between the two points, how fast could I send data between the two? I have an ethernet lan on each end that I want to connect together. And of course :-) I want to do it for low cost.

I would simply use the internet but there is no high speed available out there in rural Western Washington State.

Thank you all very much, Harvey.

Reply to
Harvey
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since you don't have direct wiring between the locations, you might think about wireless..... - x-posted to that newsgroup continue at the bottom

Reply to
ps56k

It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster would be good.

What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?

And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both locations are on the same dead end road.

Thanks

Reply to
Harvey

It is for monitoring 5 cameras. The camera setup is in place and working over the internet using dial up, but it is too slow. The picture updates only about every 5 to 40 seconds. I assume that internet traffic is the variable. Once every two seconds or faster would be good.

What do you recommend for wireless through a fairly wooded area?

And again can the phone company provide a connection in the existing buried wiring? They always have extra pairs available, right? Both locations are on the same dead end road.

Thanks

Reply to
Harvey

oops - wooded area - NG - the radio wave signals are absorbed by the leaves.... :((

Not sure what "wiring" might be available to you in this situation - cheaply - BTW - since you indicated that broadband - DSL, cable, ISDN are not avail in your area it might even be tough to get a "leased line" - and it will be cost prohibitive... A "leased line" is not just renting an extra pair of wires, it actually is a datacom service that is configured, optimized, monitored, and $$$.

And yes - they usually are a hub & spoke arrangement with say 2 points near each other actually going all the way back to the telco exchange for the "electronics" portion.

Any other options ?? Is this on your property - is there a fence or other "path" where you might be able to string some cable ?

Reply to
ps56k

Some frequencies have problems going through water. 900MHz wireless penetrates leaves (not trunks) quite nicely. Less than a mile is easy. Worked great for Metricom (Ricochet). See:

and others. One catch is that the throughput is rather limited.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

ps56k wrote: (snip)

I believe in some cases you can buy (rent) a pair of wires with no electronics in between. It is sometimes done for alarm companies. It might be that it is harder than it used to be, as phone companies want to be in the datacom business. I know public schools that do it for their T1 lines instead of leasing T1 lines. (For schools close enough to the district office or to other schools.) Libraries might also be able to do it.

-- glen

Reply to
glen herrmannsfeldt

You don't say how much less than a mile. If the phone company can provide you with a leased line that is less than 1500 metres in length to the location you want it may be worth looking at a "VDSL over Ethernet" system, most seem to give you 15Mbs at that distance. Most come as a master and slave combination.

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Reply to
LR

Never say never, but forget wireless in that area (lived in rathdrum idaho ((western id)) and trees/leafs in the summer and snow in the winter made that a non-starter..... However, There are several commercial systems/isp's out there that schools/businesses/etc use that may be able to point you in the right direction (check with your local school and find out how they get their internet fo the classes, ended up with )

as a start you may want to see if any are shown on this map at

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click on the state you want and see if you are in one of the red circles or for a more text based (rather than graphical/map) or check Washington State Wireless Internet Service Providers at
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Not rural wash, but oregon, you may want to peruse the thread at
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see if any of that info helps.

Reply to
Peter Pan

Something you can try with the phone lines is to establish a connection between the two locations without using the internet. In years past I've tested using the dialin server included in the win 98 DUN 1.3 application. Just to see if it could be done, I ran netmeeting and a webcam between two computers over the two different phone lines in the house. Still would be slow compared to broadband, but might be a little quicker than going thru an ISP.

Reply to
Si Ballenger

So are you saying instead of calling an ISP, I just call the phone at my other location and regular dialup modems on the two ends will talk to each other? How can I configure that? Thanks, Harvey

Reply to
Harvey

combination.http://www.eusso.com/product3/Ethernet%20Extender.htm I don't know how long the buried wires are, but the line of sight distance is probably less than 1/2 mile. So if it were a little over 1500m, say 1800m would it just give up or would the rate drop or what? Thanks, Harvey

Reply to
Harvey

combination.http://www.eusso.com/product3/Ethernet%20Extender.htm>

I have never tried this over 900 metres but looking at the specs for one of the "Planet VC-201's" the rate drops but there will be a point where the link is not viable.

I have seen the spec for models which do work to 2.4Km but have misplaced the link at the moment, if I find it I will post it.

Reply to
LR

Can't find the link I was looking for but MRV do "Long Range"(2.4Km) home units.

Reply to
LR

That can work; the traditional limit in such cases was 38400 baud ("56K" dialup was always asymmetric, with the 56K only downward from a modem bank that had a special interface; If I recall correctly, it pretty much required that the 56K sending system be co-located at the Central Office.)

The technology has been around for years; you could use SLIP.

If you do this, the call is going to be routed via the central office, not just take the direct signal path between the two sites, because as far as the telephone company is concerned there would be no direct path between the two sites.

You used to be able to get "wet" and "dry" pairs (the difference in who is supplying the electricity). What you are asking for used to be common, and would be a typical application for a CSU/DSU at a nominal line rate of 56K, degraded by distance.

You might be able to set up a microwave link between the sites. That used to be a major investment, but it is relatively affordable now. Though you didn't mention a budget for this project? A microwave link would likely have to be licensed (mostly a formality if you hire experienced installers and you don't happen to be in a bird migration path). The 900 MHz mentioned earlier is in the unlicensed ISM frequency range -- but note that the 802.11a, 802.11b, 802.11g, and 802.11n commercial off-the-shelf units are -not- in the ISM frequency range, so you would likely have to order something in rather than buy it at a local consumer electronics store.

Reply to
Walter Roberson

How about cellular data services? An aircard and a router at the camera end would get it onto the internet.

Reply to
Bill Kearney

In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet Harvey wrote in part:

Thanks for the additional details. This is an application where an asymmetric link would work well.

Your problem might be elsewhere: 40 seconds is very long for internet traffic, and the problem might be the sending comp. It sounds more like a swap-delay on some MS-Windows systems. Some modems "Winmodems" can also consume excessive CPU. Does it run well when you plug a laptop in?

Yes, the telco should be able to provide a dry pair. A big problem is it will almost certainly be _much_ longer than you expect. The dry pair is made by installing crossconnect at an available site. If you are extremely lucky, they have a pedestal not to far up the line and are willing to mess it up with crossconnect. If not, the crossconnect will be installed in the Central Office.

Fortunately however, ASDL can push 15,000 wire feet and there are other solutions like Long-Range Ethernet. Google. You need to call the phone comany to see what they will provide you (will they do it at all), and only after "yes" can you dare ask them how long the wire will run.

Reply to
Robert Redelmeier

On the other computer. New Connection Wizard Connect to the internet Set up connection manually Connect using a dial up modem Phone number of the first computer above

The connection will travel from the first computer to the telco central office and from there back to the second computer. If the distance is around 3 miles to the C.O., you'll probably get a 22 Kbps connection or so.

You won't get a "56K" connection (the MARKETING term for a 45 to 48 Kbps connection in real life) as the signal is not digitally injected at the C.O.

We use this approach in all of our wireless access points as a backup access to the tower if the wireless backhaul is down.

Reply to
DTC

Only because it's painful to watch you guys stumble over a wireless solution, I'm going to help you out. If you can get an off-premise extension solution or dry pair, here's a link to equipment that works.

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At distances beyond 1/2 mile, it will probably not link at anything higher than 5 Mbs, but there may be a chance for 15.

Carl Navarro

Reply to
Carl Navarro

Carl, Thanks for the link. The picture on the web page looks like two boxes setting one on top of the other. Is this the equipment for one end only? Or is it just a single picture showing the front and back of two units (both ends)? And is the price for one end or both ends? Thanks again, Harvey

Reply to
Harvey

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