X10 still around?

Sorry folks. It's been a long time since participating in this newsgroup. But time has suddenly appeared and I am wondering if all my X-10 stuff is obsolete or has been upgraded or???

Anybody?

Wayne

Reply to
Wayne Lundberg
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Bottom posters just love to scroll down for *every* message instead of using their page down button or simply clicking on the next message to see something new.

Bottom posting became popular when the mouse scroll wheel was invented... one justifies the other.

Bottom posters don't like to use a split screen to display message contents since the space available is never enough to get them past the stuff they've already read before.... they open each message to the entire screen so that they have half a chance of seeing the response (at the bottom of the message of course).

Bottom posters have such a short memory that they didn't remember what they just read one posting ago and like to see it all over again or don't like to move one post up to see previous contributions.

On an emotional side, bottom posters love the suspense waiting for the new response to show up while they are scrolling feverishly downward. They would never cut, edit or abbreviate previous information to make their response shorter. This would shorten the anticipation while searching for the new contribution. Why read the readers digest version when you can have it all?

If they can't use their scroll wheel to get to the nugget of new info, the bottom poster doesn't feel fulfilled!

TOP POSTERS UNITE! Do post on the top! Do edit out repetitious information, or leave only the bare minimum required for continuity BELOW your new information (as a courtesy)! Be helpful to all the other readers so they can see the new information or response with no further fuss, delay, or effort. The biggest way to frustrate bottom posters is to give them the information up-top so that the bottom poster doesn't have to scroll or anticipate! WE SHALL PREVAIL!

Reply to
RF Dude

It's still around for those folks who have already invested in it. But I'd not recommend it to anybody entering the fray right now, other than for a 'just playing around' very entry level type system. There are too many other, much better, alternatives if you are just starting (e.g. UPB or Z-Wave or Zigbee.)

------------------------------------- Dean Roddey Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems

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Reply to
Dean Roddey

I take it that top posting is acceptable in this newsgroup? What I missed (miss) with the X-10 system is feedback such as IR or other sensors. Having played a bit with the Basic Stamp, I can see where the 'home automation' art could go, and looking through a few sites from people in this group, I see a huge leap in technology and I am overwhelmed. Time to go back to kindergarten. Your site looks like a good place to start. Thanks!

Wayne

Reply to
Wayne Lundberg

I think the diatribes against top-posting trace back to the early days of Usenet, when news was read with host-based readers through (e.g.) VT-100 emulators (or actual VT-100s :), which simply scrolled the text that was sent to them. I certainly started out that way. Those primitive readers tended to scroll through the entire post, leaving the bottom of it visible on the 24-line screen. Under those circumstances, bottom-posting made sense - it was most likely to leave the stuff you were interested in on the screen.

More modern newsreaders, taking advantage of X/Mac/Windows technology, display the post as an entity in a window, usually with the top initially in view. Using this type of reader, top-posting tends to be easier to read.

I try to match my posting style to the "culture" of the particular newsgroup - if I see top-posters being flamed by the "regulars", I'll bottom-post (if I remember to :); my default is to top-post, since I suspect it's more convenient for the, say, 90% of Usenet participants who have no axe to grind and are using simple, modern newsreaders like Outlook Express.

- Dennis Brothers

Reply to
Dennis Brothers

It's still around but is beginning to see some competition. Insteon looks like a possible replacement. It's two-way, reasonably priced and is compatible with X-10. Read the white paper at...

http://www.>Sorry folks. It's been a long time since participating in this newsgroup.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Thanks. Will do.

Reply to
Wayne Lundberg

Top-posting and X-10 deserve each other ..;-)

If you are considering a minor foray or re-entry into X-10 (it's cheap and can work fine for some needs), consider starting by developing a schematic diagram of your house wiring.

In so far as possible, put all X-10 devices and the interface (CM11a, TW523 etc) on one 110VAC leg and devices that may reduce the signal ("signal suckers" such switching computer power supplies) or noise on the other 110VAC leg.

This does two things: 1) obviates the need for a coupler and attendant problems and 2) minimizes failures owing to reduced signal strength and noise.

Then, as need arises, choose from one of the alternatives to X-10 based in part on consideration of the home automation _software_ you select. None that I know of supports all the emerging technologies at this time.

(Basic stamps are neat. The new "industrial" version with expanded temperature range opens up a whole new area of environmental monitoring. Buy them here:

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HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

And buy an Elk ESM1 Signal Strength Meter (and/or ACT ScopeTest2 if you have an oscilloscope).

.... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

To be honest I never really thought about it, and had no idea what you guys were always rambling about with the 'top posting' stuff. I've been on newsgroups for a long time, but I guess I just wasn't paying attention. I always just figured if anyone wanted to know what I responding to, they'd look below, and I didn't want them to have to go searching for what I posted. But, I guess maybe people see it the other way around.

And of course there's the whole thing about how what I have to say is much more important than the people I'm responding to, and therefore why would you need to even check :-)

------------------------------------- Dean Roddey Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems

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Reply to
Dean Roddey

If there are only two posts in a thread, it doesn't much matter.

But if the respondent wants to place a comment physically adjacent to individual parts of a post, as I did above, it does matter.

Top posting is one way that some folks have used/use for disregarding what has been written before -- to end the discussion with their last words, as it were, especially if the thread started conventionally and then was top-posted.

Others just aren't up on their 1990's usenet etiquette ;-) Used to be that (eg) college sophomores would collaborate to post elaborate threads so that the very geometry of the article titles in the thread when viewed in unix pine or tin newsreaders made an 'artistic' pattern. Now they seem to concentrate on how many terabytes of binary files they can acquire ...

Marc Marc_F_hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

Races may be interesting, but tend to result in propagation of biased views. While others are busy betting on their Zigbee/Z-wave/Insteon/etc race horse, it may be useful to recognize that race horses aren't much good for plowing ...

You won't hear much about it in this newsgroup -- which tends to focus first on fixing X-10 problems and secondarily on alternatives to X-10 for lighting -- but there are other important aspects of home automation control other than how the information gets to the control device ....

That is, however, what most of the current buzz in the club house is about.

Once the reliability/communication issue is resolved (which it was 100.00% for some lighting installations decades ago) other questions are more readily recognized as important:

-- Do the lighting controllers (dimmers) buzz? Cause filaments to buzz?

-- How much RF noise to they put in the environment? (compare CE requirements with near-absent US)

-- Do they contribute to "wall acne" (plethora of wall plates and gizmos) ?

-- Can your visiting Aunt figger out how to turn the lights on in the bathroom?

-- What is their efficiency ?

-- Will the new technology add to, or subtract from, the value of your home?

-- Is the technology proprietary ?

-- Is the technology secure?

And so on ...

Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

Give me a call when you have time if you like. I'll get you the M1 if you haven't already sourced it.

I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of newbies I'll mention it. All of your existing hard-wired sensors are compatible with the ELK M1 Gold system.

I believe Dean Roddey mentioned that CQC now supports the ELK M1 Gold. I'm sure he'll chime in on this.

I'm surprised. I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that you had done your own installation.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Thank you Marc, will cut and paste your reply in a save file for later digestion and action. For sure, I must do some planning what with all the darned automation stuff already in place... Mr. Coffee, sprinkler system with three stations, burglar alarm and sensors, fire alarm and sensor, furnace control, doorbell, motion sensors outside...

Wayne

PS - Interesting responses to my question on top posting... I remember the old days with that 24 line thing and 300 baud rate which made it possible to read the whole note as it was coming in. Then ending at the bottom where you could reply without further ado. Good old CompuServe!

Reply to
Wayne Lundberg

Thanks Marc, you have given me a lot to work with (think about) in my planning. I've almost stopped using all my X-10 stuff except when leaving home for a few days.

in

Reply to
Wayne Lundberg

Reply to
Dave Houston

Ah yes, .. snipped-for-privacy@compuserve.com

Bottom posting has been the established, even written norm in usenet since at least NNTP and the Great Renaming c. 1987

It was the *only* way to post when I started using multics continuum circa 1978 (I wonder if RF Dude can grog "sequential file" ? He may think it has something to do with scroll mice ;-).

I remember an episode involving a Very August Person in our institution who was told that he could review the deliberations of our technical committee by spooling the continuum and adding to it. He started downloading from home with a TI Silent 7xx from the beginning of the continuum, used up the whole roll of thermal paper and never did get to the end where he could add his two cents.

When he came to the face-to-face meeting, he held one end and threw the roll across the room and across other participants like a roll of toilet paper. He was frosted ...

So "bottom posting" has not been to everyone's liking since the get-go.

.... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

I'm in a not dissimilar situation. The ELK M1 is looking more and more attractive.

The Napco fire-security system I have has frustrating limitations in the response time for 'lighting vectors' that the ELK may not have. And the software interface has limitations that I won't discuss but Are also in the way of 'progress'. Most of the work of installing a security system is in the wiring and sensors. At $400 or so, the M1 is very attractive and the Napco parts have residual value on eBay.

Importantly, there is new software out there that supports the Elk that I think I like. Question is how much time do I have to fool with it and can I find someone to take responsibility other than myself. The company that did the security at our house for 20 years sent out a kid last time we had a lightning event who did a messy job, didn't fix the problem and charged an arm and a leg for me to show him what to do. Completely different experience than when the owner himself did the work.

Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

Right -- Reminds me of another reason to appreciate X-10. Intermittent failures just add to the sense of a random, lived-in look ;-)

I think I forgot to add to my laundry list the general suggestion that one begin with the software. The choices have gotten a bit better, but not nearly as much as I expected. But you top-posted, and I trimmed, so I'll never know .

Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

"Marc F Hult" wrote

Ah - therein lies the conundrum. For a technology to be truly useful, it's got to be easily maintainable. Every little fuss and fidget the designer/operator has to work around makes the system less maintainable by a third party. A few family emergencies have taught me that a system will break down when the "magician" is farthest away and least able to personally intervene. It may be why, in the long run, some people are better off with COTS solutions from the big names. It offloads a lot of hassle, perhaps at a time when you can least afford the hassling.

Alarm techs are like cable techs are like phone techs are like PC techs. They range from the inexperienced boob to the techs that can just lay hands on a machine or system and know where the problems lie. The corollary issue you raise about "do it yourself" concerns the ability to figure out who's who in the "for hire" arena. How do you evaluate a good alarm tech? Is there any way to make sure you stay *with* that tech?

There's another problem with DIY that I've been discovering. Cable jockeying is not necessarily compatible with any number of fairly serious sports- related injuries and Father Time. Alarm system failures often involving reliving the joy of cable laying with the ceremonial cable tracing rituals. Not as bad as laying, but bad enough. I know as I get older I'll be less and less able to do that kind of work.

Right now, the issue is CCTV maintenance. To be useful and more immune from theft, cameras have to be high up. To be high up, they need someone who can climb ladders. God and I have a deal about ladder climbing. If I stay off them, he won't have to miraculously spare my life again.

PIRs have the same issue: Too low, they can be stolen or neutralized too easily. Too high, they are hard to maintain. I've found CCTV cameras to need maintenance every 6 months, perhaps even less. That makes them poor candidates for *my* DIY servicing if I mount them where they would be most useful, under the eaves.

Right now, the cameras and PIRs are concealed in 2nd floor window flower boxes that I can lean out the window to reach, but that's not an ideal solution. I need a folding mast crane that pops up from the center of the roof like the window washing robots that some skyscrapers use.

I'll bet security system maintenance has been a problem since the first anti-tomb robbing designs of the early pyramids. I'll bet it will follow us into space.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

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