x10 Help

No. It's completely independent. Some transmitters generate ~120kHz with the PIC (e.g. RR501) while most merely gate a free running oscillator circuit.

Square D has just started marketing CBus here. I haven't checked their pricing but they will have to compete with other premium systems.

Anybody building new and planning for hardwired automation should consider it.

"Frank Mc Alinden"

Phew! The first time I (mis)read that I saw "hopefully you DON'T have a

1203C" because that's exactly what it says on the label for "Part Number." That's good, I hope.

I just examined the metal pins on the plug and they seem to extend a lot further out than most jacks I've seen. I'll consider myself duly warned but it may not do any good. I've broken far sturdier pins than that (PS/2 keyboard connectors, for one).

I was going to use a Hwang unit that came from an old printer sharing box but when I put it on the meter it read 15VDC even though the faceplate said

9VDC. I hunted around a little and found a Radio Shack variable voltage supply that put out 9 volts. I realize that 15VDC is an unloaded reading, but I thought I would err on the cautious side since lower voltage is less likely to do damage than higher voltage. I don't believe either one of them is regulated so I might end up ordering one that CSI recommends.

Well, you and John seem to like them alot. I like what I see so far. I would say it's like running the Ocelot with Homeseer (in terms of ease of programming), but it doesn't require a 24x7 PC to achieve that. Coupled with the TV output, the overlay capability and add-ons like caller ID, it looks to be a very nice, compact and highly capable product. And since I got it and a bunch of X-10 modules for less than 1/3 list price, I'm pretty happy. Considering my most recent Ebay experiences (a Nikon camera that had to be turned off by removing the batteries because the power switch was bad), I'm happy that it even booted up! Hopefully it does more than just boot up, but I haven't gotten around to actually hooking it up to a PC and loading the latest software.

-- Bobby G.

Why would you care about low, unboosted signals like that? If you plug something like that into the outlets of a house with an XTB-II in the repeater mode, it's going to boost the signal. If you wanted to measure the output of those low output devices accurately you would have to place them behind an X-10 filter to keep the XTB from seeing them.

It makes more sense to me to find the weakest XTB boosted signal you can find and make sure that it shows up on the meter as a few bars. If a signal sucker finds its way on line, you'll be able to see its effects easily. I agree that in most cases you will care more about the weaker devices than the stronger ones, as you say, but with the XTB-II installed the signal of most things in the house is likely to "bend the needle" at the max end of the ESM1 bargraph LED with no discrimination.

Setting it so that it registers the weakest signals in the house as a few bars will likely mean that most normal transmissions in the house occur within the bargraph's display range, which is what I would want to have from a meter. The way the ESM1 flickers it's not likely you're going to get a precise voltage reading anyway so it makes sense to calibrate it so that it registers the highest and lowest signals somewhere on the scale. The difficulty in all this is that you're trying to read from 0 - 20+ volts with meter only designed to read from 0 to 5. That implies a compromise somewhere along the line.

It all really depends on how he plans to use his meter. Will he use it to check for signal suckers? Noise? Relative signal strengths? Jeff's suggestion of adding a filter ahead of the wall wart would work, but it makes the meter into more of a bolo than it already is and makes it a lot harder to fit into tight outlet spaces. It's probably pretty easy to add a small switch with a fixed resistor to provide two scales, one high, one low and if I didn't have the Monterey, which reads accurately from 5mv to 4 volts, I probably won't bother dual scaling the ESM1.

-- Bobby G.

The "International" version of the XTB-II can only repeat the zero-crossing burst as that bit is sent out the digital port. So, the basic repeater in the XTB-II will not help in a 3-phase installation. The XTB-IIR will transmit all 3 phases, but that unit is not available in a 50Hz version. All the timing slots have to be changed for that mod. Since I can't thoroughly test at 50Hz here, I am hesitant to offer a 50Hz version.

Jeff

zero-crossing

That's interesting for a number of reasons. It shows that the difference in powerline frequencies is not always negligible and that Frank was right to be at least a little concerned about using 60Hz gear like the ESM1 on a 50Hz system. I realize that the issues facing a repeater are far more complex than those that might affect a signal strength meter, but it's still a good reminder that things can get complicated.

IIRC, Frank implied that he didn't have any X-10 transmitters other than the XTB-II and the connected HomeVision controller. I believe that's why he was going to buy an independent maxi controller so that he could at least have a standard transmitter he could use to calibrate the ESM1. If the XTB's going to be the only device transmitting X-10 on the line, it still makes sense to me to ensure that the ESM1 can read the weakest signals the XTB can output rather than calibrating it to a maxi-controller that won't really be part of the day-to-day operations.

-- Bobby G.

Hi Bobby

IMO its important to have a good 9v power supply with plenty of extra current capacity available for future add ons you may connect to it.... After a couple of years my original power supply started causing problems with my Homevision and recently another Australian user sent his hv to me to have a look at as he thought the internal battery was shot but it was his power supply..replaced the power supply and alll was ok....

Bobby a lot of the hv users are now using scheltes HVXL app to programme Homevision as it a lot more flexible then the standard hv software and has more features.......check it out...Im using it to program my test hv unit...

HTH Frank

Robert Green;40613 Wrote:

Just as there are some who think noisy SM power supplies that CAN fire an X-10 switch WON'T fire that switch immediately after the bad PS is plugged in. Instead, that noisy PS will apparently wait until the wee hours of the morning when no one is watching to wreak its havoc. (-: The long interval, at least IMHO, is more suggestive of random noise eventually forming a pattern that causes the switch to fire.

I might be more willing to embrace the Bloom model for *all* errant switch activations if someone proposed a mechanism accounting for the switch activating hours after plugging in the bad power supply.

While I DON'T doubt the Bloom model explains a lot of unintended switch activations, I DO doubt that it satisfactorily explains phantom commands in controller logs or switch activations that occur long after the suspect power supply is put on line.

-- Bobby G.

As I earlier posted, in most of the incidents reported here either there are no commands logged (as with Bruce's PS) or the logged commands can be traced to a transmitter. I can only recall one or two reports where there were logged commands that were truly of mysterious origins and they repeated the same few commands all the time.

Hi Guys

Received my elk esm1 today ..;-)

Didnt have a 12v transformer at hand closest was a 10v ac 1amp .. So i checked the actual voltage and it was 11.5 unloaded 11 loaded so thought i would give it a try....

Connected the esm1 to a power strip that a plugin appliance module is plugged into and got Homevision to send x10 commands to the appliance module...The appliance module of course worked (thanks to Jeffs xtb ;-)...) but not a dicky bird from the esmi...no green x10 led no bars on the red bar strip ;-(.... This was at my computer desk....

So i thought i would try the esm1 in the loungeroom on a power point which has a lamp module plugged into....The lamp module responds and so does the esm1 ;-)...I get the green led and 2 bars on the esm1.....So looks like it needs calibrating....

I havent received my maxi controller from Laser as yet as i intend to use that to calibrate the unit...as i think Dave mentioned if its CE approved it should be txing 5v signal........

Bobby did you get round to trying the xtb connected directly to your Homevision...???

Frank

Frank,

Buy a 12VAC transformer before calibrat>

Hi Dave

Took your advice and purchased a 12v ac adaptor ....I now get the green led and 1 sometimes 2 bars on the bargraph when plugged into the power strip next to my pc....(before nothing) In the Loungeroom it now brings up 4 bars...so an improvement for sure....Still waiting on my maxi controller...

Thanks Frank

Hi Guys

Just an update.... Received my Maxi controller from Laser today so i plugged it and the Elk ESM1 into a power strip next to my pc and triggered some x10 signals on the Maxi to see how many bars would light up.....Only 2 would light up so i opened the ESM1 and preceded to adjust the pot...It appeared to have been set fully in one direction....Adjusting it fully in the other direction caused the x10 led and one bar to be lit most of the time without any noticeable change when the Maxi send x10 commands....so i set the pot back to its original setting......

I took the Maxi and ESM1 and plugged them into an outlet in the kitchen and when i trigger x10 commands from the Maxi i get full scale most of the time ;-) Looks like my pc +ups,s are loading the signal.....

Frank

When Paul Beam was designing it, he read the X-10 literature and saw that it said the signal level was 5Vpp. When he measured a few signals, he found they were actually 10Vpp. Being new to X-10, he assumed that the 5Vpp was a mistake and that they meant 5Vpk so he calibrated for full-scale at 10Vpp. When ELK bought the rights to the design, they changed the calibration to read full-scale at 5Vpp.

I don't think there's any limit in the US/Canada but CE limits PLC signals to 5Vpp and most European modules have been redesigned in the past 7-8 years to meet those requirements.

There's also the issue of attenuation by the 120:12 or 230:12 transformer. Since it depends both on the DC level (based on the AC input) and on the bandwidth characteristics of the transformer, it's impossible to predict without knowing the transformer details - calibrating to some known level is the only way to establish a baseline. Of course, the baseline can be (within the limits of the circuitry) anything you desire but you now can relate any less than full scale reading to a known level.

I'm glad to finally have confirmation that changing the transformer works. I was sure it would but its always better to have a thread like this (by a surviving hacker ;) to point future wannabe hackers to.

The output levels of some US/Canada transmitters are shown here...

Most of the newer modules are closer to 5Vpp while all of the older designs were 10Vpp.

The great value of the ESM1 is, as you've discovered, that it takes the guesswork out of the mix and allows you to quickly determine what is attenuating the signal.

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