x10 Help

Hi Guys

A little more info.......I removed the XTB and connected the x10 interface (TW523 equiv) to Homevision and the plugin modules appear to respond to most x10 commands...???..Is it possible the XTB signal is too strong for these devices ????

Thanks Frank

Are the other modules natives or converted 120V models? Are you sending standard or extended codes? I think the LD11 is the only 230V device that responds to extended codes.

The ESM1 should be OK as l>

Hi Frank,

I answered your email last night. Hopefully, that will give you some help.

Checking my records, I found you bought one of the first 240V 50Hz kits. Since your LED doesn't flash in response to a HomeVision output, the digital signal is not turning the transmitter on. I realize shipping from Australia is expensive, but it may be worth sending it back to have it fully tested. Otherwise, all I can suggest is that you re-check that all components are installed properly.

There was a firmware update after your unit was shipped to address an error in 3-phase transmission. However, that would not prevent the LED from flashing. And, since your email said you were on a single-phase system, that should not effect you anyway. If you choose not to return the XTB-II for testing, I'll just mail you a new PIC.

Jeff

"Frank Mc Alinden"

I think you'll have to describe the equipment you're using for the US readers. I tried to do that, and when I put LD11 and X-10 into Google I got this page:

Warning - visiting this web site may harm your computer! You can learn more about harmful web content and how to protect your computer at StopBadware.org. Suggestions: Return to the previous page and pick another result. Try another search to find what you're looking for. Or you can continue to

at your own risk. Advisory provided by Google

Fascinating! I read a while back the Google had determined that 1 out of every 10 sites on the net is infected with malware, spyware or worse. This is the first time I am aware of that they warned me not to click on an infected site. (I know this doesn't help you with your problem, but I thought Google's reaction to the search warranted some exposure here in CHA

PS: Here's the blurb:

May 11, 2007 - Google Research Finds 10 Percent of Web Pages Hold Malware

According to research from Google, 10 percent of web pages contain malicious code. Google closely analyzed 4.5 million web pages over the course of a year and found that approximately ten percent, or 450,000, had the capability of installing malware without users' knowledge. An additional

700,000 pages are believed to be infected with code that could harm users' computers. The company says it has "started an effort to identify all web pages in the Internet that could be malicious." Most entice users to visit the dangerous pages through tempting offers, and exploit holes in Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) to install themselves on users' computers. Google also examined the vectors used by attackers to infect these web pages; most malicious code was located in elements beyond the control of website owners, such as banner advertisements and widgets. Sorry to interrupt your thread. I'll go back to the search to see if there are other sites that give details about 240VAC X-10 gear without the malware!

-- Bobby G.

Hi Guys

Thanks for your responses.....

The modules im using are 240v versions not modded 110v versions...An LD11 is a din mount dimmer.......Im sending both standard and Custom (which i assume is extended) x10 commands......

My initial problem with no reponse at all was due to a bent pin on the Homevision x10 socket which i have now fixed....Have done some more testing for jeff and contacted him offline ....

recalibrate it as the replacement transformer may be either more or less

adjust if

schematic.

Thanks for that Dave might have to get one and mod it......

Frank

"Frank Mc Alinden"

Good on you, mate! What made you even think to look at the connection?

As for the ESM1 and the difference in Hz between Aussie and US power, I thought that someone said it doesn't make any difference but I couldn't find substantiation for that in a quick Google search. Perhaps someone smarter will chime in and clarify. It's too bad that X-10 never really embraced

240VAC the way they did 110VAC. From what I saw in my brief search, the price for the 240VAC gear is still pretty painful.

-- Bobby G.

And if each of the 50 states in the USA required a different plug design, X-10 prices here would reflect that. While Europe is standardizing on voltage, nearly each country has a different plug style. If Belgium splits, there will probably be yet another. ;-)

European/US prices for X-10 devices that do not plug into the powerline are not all that different, especially considering the difference in sales volume. Laser sells the HR10E for 12GBP. X-10 sells the equivalent HR12A for $19.99.

As for using the ESM1 on 230VAC, replacing the 120VAC:12VAC wall transformer with a 230VAC:12VAC wall transformer should work. I've answered this question a few times but don't recall ever getting feedback from anyone who tried it. Whether that's because no one tried it or everyone who did was electrocuted, I don't know. Maybe Frank, if he survives, will give us some feedback.

The transformer that came with my GPS has a detachable plate on the wall plug side. It looks like they can mount any sort of plug type on that adapter plate. I've noticed that a number of new X-10 items come with wall warts (the cameras and the new LED mini-timer, among others) so maybe they'll get around to designing a similar system for their 220-240VAC modules. I believe that the Sanyo GPS supply is a switching-type and X-10 can't use switching supplies because they would not pass the 120KHz X-10 signal to the device they power. Do you think it's possible to design a switching supply that's capable of passing the X-10 signal?

What might the possible effects be of the differ power frequencies? My "impression" (and it's only that because I don't usually pay a lot of attention to 220VAC X-10 gear questions) is that the meter obtains the frequency from the powerline to start with, so it should at least indicate the presence of a signal, i.e. the bars will light. My question is whether the 'X-10 Good' LED will light, too.

It's up to Frank now. With the dollar so weak, there probably will never be a better time for him to buy an ESM1. If he's serious enough about HA to own a centralized controller like HomeVision, he's *got* to get a meter sooner or later. Sooner will probably save a lot of plugging and unplugging of suspicious signal suckers and noise sources. Hopefully he'll survive the transformer experiment and report his results.

I thought Jeff had an ESM1, too. He should have the appropriate sized

220VAC transformer and the electro-smarts not to electrocute himself. It's big of me to volunteer his ESM1 (and his time) for a possibly lethal experiment but he's probably bored now that the he's finishing up the XTB-IIR.

-- Bobby G.

Yes I bought a ESM1 back when it cost less than $50. Sorry, no 220VAC wall-warts here.

Getting bored of using the soldering iron...

However, the temperatures finally broke. We had a beautiful day up in Zion yesterday.

Jeff

Some of the European modules mount on DIN rails which are independent of plug styles.

The 120kHz does not go through the power supply section. It takes a separate path so there's no reason why one couldn't design an internal SMPS and still sense the 120kHz but, if you mean an external SMPS the answer is no (although there are some who think SMPS supplies are capable of spontaneously generating random X-10 signals but in the middle of the night).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The 120kHz is the same whether it's

120V/60Hz or 230V/50Hz. The ESM1 will neither know nor care that it's on 50Hz power since it's converted to DC internally. The question is whether a replacement 230VAC:12VAC wall transformer will pass the 120kHz in the same way as the 120VAC:12VAC transformer. The ESM1 has an internal potentiometer that sets the gain and I'm reasonably sure it has more than adequate range to compensate for differences in transformer transfer ratio.

The "X-10 Good" LED lights whenever 1110 is followed by 9 ones and 9 zeros (I'm not sure it checks for Manchester integrity).

The dollar will get much, much weaker.

Surely, you'll want him to wait until after he's tested the spontaneous generation theory. ;-)

Hi Guys

Bobby would you believe not only had i a bent pin on my test Homevision unit but also on my installed hv unit..;-)

Anyway i now have Jeffs xtb11 up and running great in Booster mode it reach,s no matter where i locate a plugin module ;-)......I couldnt get it to work though connected directly to Homevision ....didnt have enough time to do a thorough investigation as i also had to get another hardware device up and running which connects between Homevision and my CBUS lighting......

Yes the 240v x10 prices are a bit high compared to the U.S. prices but then Oz prices for CBUS is much better (presently) than U.S. prices..;-)

Now that the Oz dollar is up around 88 US cents i think i will order a esm1 and see if i can mod it....I just assumed that the U.S. version may have used the mains frequency as a reference for its 120khz signal ???

Have ordered a 240v version maxi controller from Laser in the U.K. will i be able to use this to calibrate the ems1...???

Thanks Frank

I thought you might have a suitable transformer you could jury rig. My bad. I guess Frank's on his own. (-:

Hopefully Bruce's rogue charger will arrive soon and you can put your Dr. Volt hat on and figure out why it's able to turn lights on in the middle of the night. That's got to be more fun than repetitive soldering. We've got to find you a new project. An XTB-RF would be nice. I think lots of folks would be interested in an X-10 coupler that didn't need to be wired into the main circuit panel.

My HomeVision controller arrived today sans power supply (everyone's missing a wallwart, it seems) but apparently the PS from an old LPT auto-switch box (from the days before home networks) fits and it powers up. Now to figure out the version of the motherboard and PROM. It responds to IR and puts a screen up on the TV, so at least it's not DOA. I'm going to check it out with a TW-523 before I try it with the XTB-II.

It was near 90 and swampy here. A totally inside day. We just got a WII to keep young visitors entertained and out of trouble but we oldsters are using it more than they are! I got to practice my bowling and it's unbelivably realistic, right down to the screams of the gallery when you accidentally let go of the ball on the backswing. I was carping about the constant reminders to secure the controller to your hand with the wrist strap until it flew out of my hand and smashed into the wall just inches above the new LCD TV. There's a good reason they warn you over and over to secure the controller to your hand. The boxing sim's pretty realistic, too. It's the only video game I ever played that made me break out into a serious sweat.

-- Bobby G.

I'm not sure what you mean. The 120kHz bursts sync to the ZC whatever the line frequency. The ESM1 detects ZC and measures the amplitude of the signal at ZC+500µS.

If the maxi meets CE limits, its output is 5Vpp. You might confirm that with Laser. Plug the maxi and ESM1 (after replacing the transformer) into the same outlet or powerstrip and adjust the potentiometer for full scale.

If you have access to a scope, you can measure the amplitude directly using the RC circuit shown at

I think what he means is how does the unit discriminate between 120kHz signals X-10 uses from other frequencies that might be on the powerline. I assume they used some sort of tuned circuit that passes 120kHz signals and rejects others just like an ordinary AM radio tuned to a certain broadcast frequency. I don't believe that either the transmitters or receivers depend on line frequency to determine the 120kHz frequency. That would most likely be determined by the values of components used to create the oscillators and receiving circuits. But I certainly can see why Frank might have made that assumption, particularly since 120kHz is a multiple of 60Hz, albeit a very high one

-- Bobby G.

Damn. That's unusual. I wonder if there's something wrong with one of the plugs that you're using. I've run into similar issues, but that's because I was clipping a 4 pin unit into a 6 or 8 pin jack.

That's odd. Do you know what version of the board and PROM that's in the HV unit? Did you check for a bent pin in the XTB? Maybe whatever's bending pins in the HV units has done the same to Jeff's device.

Not suprising since CBUS seems to be more popular outside the US.

Apparently not. But it's not an unreasonable assumption.

If you're going to continue with the XTB, you'll need to recalibrate the unit to match its much higher than normal output. I would just set it so that the signal at an outlet farthest away from the XTB shows a few bars. What you really want to know is relative, rather than absolute signal strength. If it shows a few bars at the very end of a circuit, it should still be able to register a drop if you put a new device on the line that turns out to be a signal sucker.

Jeff's suggested putting it behind an X-10 filter to attenuate the XTB's strong signal enough for it to register normally. This might be a better approach since it will retain its sensitivity to noise and would allow non boosted devices to register normally with the filter removed. Now that the XTB is working, this might all be moot anyway, since you're probably not going to experience low signal levels anywhere in a moderately sized house. Still, I think it's a good thing to have.

-- Bobby G.

Hi Guys

auto-switch box

Hopefully you have a 1203c motherboard ...?? Just watch plugging in the tw523 ;-)....(dont bend pins like i did) ....Also ensure you get a decent regulated 9v power supply...........Its a great Controller IMO ......

at ZC+500µS.

I thought maybe some sort of multiplier circuitry was used to scale the

60hz ref to 120khz.....

Thanks for that Dave

Hi Bobby

Thats exactly what i thought ......Good to hear its not related to the mains frequency...

Frank

Hi Bobby

Im sure it was me that caused the bent pins somehow........

bending

You talking about xtb ?? I have a xtb11 board which had a 1.10e firmware and i reflashed it to the latest 1.12 ..? and this certainly improved things from my last testing when i first built the unit......

No its not bent pins as i can control my test LD11 (din mount dimmer) via the direct connect method......

I think you,ll here more of CBUS in the states ,but i think at the moment the prices in the states will be rather high....

Cant have enough tools and gadgets ;-) ....Im sure it,ll come in Handy... Here in Oz x10 stuff is now appearing in Bunnings with is a large warehouse chain..... Frank

I would not calibrate it to the XTB as you will then be unable to see signals that, while low, are still more than adequate to trigger an X-10 receiver.

The earliest models sold here were calibrated for 10Vpp full scale which is what most of the pre-CM11A transmitters output here. ELK now calibrates them for 5Vpp full scale.

If we assume the frequency response is the same for 120kHz as it is for

50-60Hz, the replacement transformer will only output 1/2 the 120kHz amplitude as compared to a 120VAC system.