NSA spying: What's the best phone encryption & IMEI random number generator?

Hi Jeff,

In practice, at least in the Santa Cruz mountains, both AT&T and T-Mobile work just fine no matter what phone you stick their SIM cards into.

Hi Jeff,

Let's be clear about the details here ... :)

AT&T *certainly* tacks on a data plan, even if you have a data block. They say it's to ensure you have a consistent bill; but they're lying since they allow you to have a data block by SIM card, so there is no way you can get charged for data accidentally. They lie.

Verizon may have followed suit (I don't know); but certainly T-Mobile has not.

I know this inside and out. T-Mobile will allow you to have ANY phone, without data. They don't care if you bought the phone on your own (or if it's a pay-as-you-go phone).

Now, if you bought a subsidized contract phone, then yes, T-Mobile also requires data until your contract runs out. But the easy way around this is to just buy an unsubsidized or pay-as-you-go subsidized phone.

I a number of countries in Europe, they are being forced by the government.

Casper

True.

I do this all the time.

Yup. I see these messages all the time when I put my SIM card into a different cellphone. I ignore the messages.

Well, a forged/bogus IMEI isn't any different, in my case, than simply sticking my (T-Mobile) SIM card into a different phone with a legit IMEI.

Same thing - for practical purposes.

Personally, I gave up on the consumer HP printers after dealing with the end-of-life chips they put in the ink tanks (I'm not even talking in the printer heads, mind you - but in the ink tanks themselves!).

However, I still use (and love) HP office B&W laser printers; but I will never buy another HP ink printer for the rest of my natural life!

It does seem that GSM IMEI numbers are more meaningful in the UK and in other European countries (and India, I believe, based only on anecdotal information from friends) than in the USA.

But, in the USA, GSM cellphones are so plentiful, I guess, that the two key GSM carriers don't do a thing if you call them to tell them yours was stolen. Nor does one of those two GSM carriers ever care what IMEI number you are using (from their service standpoint).

So, the point is that randomly changing IMEI numbers every day (which is the stated goal) should have virtually no meaning to my GSM carrier (T- Mobile), so, if I accidentally goofed up, and created an IMEI number that turned out to be from a stolen phone, nothing bad would happen (AFAICT).

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether something bad would happen if I had the dastardly bad luck of choosing an IMEI number of a cell phone in the same cell as I was currently in.

Would *that* IMEI then cause a problem?

From: "Misha"

Tis true.

Another problem is HP ink fades. My office graphic artist would hang various posters she created on HP DesignJet and other HP printers and all the artwork faded.

Or, if you had the bad luck of choosing an IMEI number of a cell phone that the NSA was targeting by a drone -- just to bring it back to the Subject:

Good point!

This response made me laugh, as I had NOT even thought of that!

Oh, they care, all right. And you should care too, if you think you'll ever want the SIM subsidy code (or SUK) (for unlocking the phone to work with some other carrier's SIM) -- for the SUK is found in a look-up table the original carrier has, with key entry being the handset's factory IMEI.

And, actually, far more plentiful than GSM handsets in the USA are the CDMA handsets that Verizon, Sprint, and their resellers, provide: such handsets don't have 15 digit IMEI strings, they have alphanumeric, hex or dec MEID strings (that you *cannot* pry out of the phone with a *#06# key sequence).

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

The non-removable batteries are also a potential trojan horse as they still might provide tracking power even if the phone is supposedly turned off.

The feds (I forget which flavor) are talking about cracking down on stolen phones in the US as well. You can google "apple picking". But the deal with apple phones is they can also be parted out due to a constant need for spare parts.

Maybe it is me, but I have an eye for people using iphones with cracked screens. Or maybe I attract them. Or maybe there are a lot of people with cracked iphones. That and broken home buttons.

You have a point here. No vendor runs their batteries down to zero. It is bad for the battery for one thing. Then if you undervoltage lockout scheme isn't foolproof, you can brick the phone. This has happened with some Windows phones, though I forget which brand. [Probably not Nokia since they have excellent engineers.]

You can get new Apple iPhone parts out the back door from the same vendors that supply Apple in China. PCB's are another story. Considering the difficulty of repairing the PCB's, I would expect anything I buy "used" on eBay to have a fair chance of not quite working correctly.

Believe it or not, but it's the FCC that's "cracking down" (or more correctly, "cracking up"). That was about 18 months ago, and predictably, nothing useful has happened.

... this summer, we?ll be launching a database that will enable us to identify and disable stolen devices using a unique device identifier called IMEI and share that info with other GSM carriers so any stolen device will be disabled on our network. Note mention of AT&T using the IMEI number to disable the phone.

You rang: There's an interesting story here. I found the iPhone 4 in the gutter in downtown Boulder Creek, CA. It had been run over by numerous vehicles, resulting in the rather artistic display. I could have been evil, installed a replacement digitizer, and sold the phone. Instead, I needed a karma recharge, and decided to perform an un-natural act and return it to it's owner. I plug in the cable, and run iExplorer on my PC. That gave me the phone number, address book, and the call history. The 2nd to last called number turned out to be a mutual acquaintance who gave me to the owners daughters phone number. I eventually talked the owner and arranged to return the phone. It seems the owner and his wife had both undergone hip replacement surgery and really needed the phone to coordinate rides.

I offered to fix the phone for the cost of parts ($30) plus about 30 minutes labor ($40) but the owner indicated that he had insurance from Verizon. So, I returned the phone with the cracked display. Only then did I looked up the terms of the Verizon (Asurion) iPhone "replacement" insurance. $10/month with a $169 deductible. The replacement phone is refurbished, not new. I can buy a used iPhone 4 on eBay for about $250. He's been paying the $10/month for over 2 years or $240 so far. In effect, his replacement iPhone 4 just cost him at least: $240 + $169 = $409 which is hardly a bargain. It would have been better and cheaper if I had replaced the digitizer for about $70.

Yeah, insurance on phones is a bad idea. By the time you break one, you can buy one on Craigs. Remember that you need to insure the phone is paid off.

I am assuming whatever iexplorer is can't work on a locked phone.

Yep. Several years ago, I found an iPhone 3G that had 1 month left on a contract. Verizon refused to activate it, even if I paid off the remaining month of someone elses contract. They consided my offer to be reasonable, but their computer had no way to accept a payment on someone elses account. No clue if it's still the same today.

Correct. You need the passcode. The iPhone 4 that I found didn't have the passcode set.

However, there are always work arounds and bug exploits:

I am looking up douche bag in the dictionary. Ah, it says "see cellular provider."

Seriously, like you can't take over a contract? I mean there is still a credit check.

I only use Blackberries. You need to unlock the phone and the PC interface. Apple never got their 140-2 rating. Somehow Android managed to get fips rated. Their security is dubious at best.

It never occurred to me to use the emergency mode of the phone, but it makes sense because that is the one thing that isn't locked.

The GSM network simply cannot handle the same two IMEIs using the network simultaneously. So IMEI uniqueness is essential to the network.

This is why all dual-sim dual-active phones have *two* different IMEI numbers, one for each sim slot. Contrast that with dual-sim dual-standby phones, which usually use the same IMEI for both sim slots.. in which case they can both register, but if one becomes active the other is disabled.

--Tracking--

All mobile phones are trackable. A provider may only opt to refuse registration from blacklisted IMEIs, but what's to stop them from tracking the theif? Nothing, apart from economics, AFAIK. Of course the OPs natural concern is whether he can be tracked. Why not?

--Denial of Service--

Couldn't someone deny service to someone else simply by cloning their IMEI, and staying active on the same network? I'm conjecturing, but it seems being able to change IMEIs would control for someone who would do this kind of attack against you.

Suppose you change the IMEI before every new SIM is inserted... don't you think the IMEI+SIM combination appears like a new phone and different user?

Otherwise, if you don't change IMEI numbers, every past sim will be associated to each other and every future sim, no?