I was afraid of that! Did that prevent signal transmission altogether, or was the signal still propagated over the powerline?
Does insteon send out messages over both bands (PLC & RF) simultaneously? Or does it rely on RF->PLC bridging at the signalincs? I couldn't tell from their documentation.
The Insteon RF signalincs are subject to 900 MHz interference, at least from continuous transmitting devices like the RCA Lyra RD900W music transmitters. With the Lyra, I was able to switch to channel 2 and the interference stopped, but I suspect that things like baby monitors may also interfere with Insteon and you may not be able to change channels with some.
When the Lyra was transmitting on channel 1, the signalinc range was less than 10 feet in the same room with the Lyra transmitter about 35 feet away. After switching channels, the signalinc works over 30 feet away and through several walls and a floor.
So "unsynched" means it does not do dual-band transmission?
Is this a mode that you can enable/disable?
Why did it have only a few foot range in synched mode? Does it require BOTH transmissions to succeed?
I never ran it unsynched it would synch if the units were a couple of feet apart, and it ran then. It uses the powerline and RF for signalling.
With more and more wireless devices like your Lyra being introduced, that's likely to be an ongoing problem.
There is a way to avoid that kind of interference but it needs to be incorporated into the Insteon design. Philips double modulates their RF, using both the data envelope and 38kHz - the RF receiver output (bursts of
38kHz) is then fed to an Atmel U2538B chip that demodulates the 38kHz and outputs the data envelope.
Yes, there are lots of schemes for avoiding interference and there are lots of 900MHz devices around.
I reported the problem to Smarthome, so it will be interesting to see if they change their design. If not, I have serious questions about Insteon's future if it relies on RF signalling.
Reminiscent of the X10 morass.
Even SmartHome President Dada only claims 99.7% reliability.
And the acceptance of routine failure by the seller as part of the systems feature list implies that the company will not take responsible for even common real-world failures such as yours.
Of course Smarthome could switch to a new version of Insteon, obsoleting the previous versions as the last X10-compatible salvation did (Lightolier Compose).
Or add a compatible "fix" (remember Leviton's "Intellisense" ?)
Marc
Ralph,
Do you have a number where you can be reached? I work for Smarthome and would like to receive a more specifics on your setup so that we can investigate this further. Please email your number to - info AT insteon DOT net
thanks, Mike
Mark,
One thing to remember, in the current Insteon products, things like the lamp modules do not receive any RF signals at all. They can receive either Insteon PLC signals or X10 siganls. The only RF currently used is for the signal bridge.
Martin Custer
What's the difference between "Insteon PLC signals" and X10 signals?
I haven't found any detailed documentation of the protocol. I presume you would get it with the SDK but the agreement for that seemed to violate the
13th Amendment's prohibition of involuntary servitude (They can block you from selling your developed Insteon device if they wish.) so I opted not to get the SDK.From reading the manual for the INSTEON SignaLinc RF at...
Apparently it is incompatible with earlier versions of some of their X-10 products and it requires the same type of filtering as X-10.
More hype than hope?
I sent you my email - I'm pretty difficult to get via phone, but monitor email most of the time.
Yeah, I was pretty put off by the agreement also and wrote to them. They claim, and a closer reading seems to support it, that the restriction is against using the Insteon name on your products, not selling software developed with the SDK.
Note below that the prohibition is just against Insteon LABELED applications.
"The distribution and commercialization of any INSTEON labeled compatible applications developed by you will require and will be subject to the terms of a separately executed agreement between you and SMARTHOME, at SMARTHOME's sole discretion."
Presumably, if they let you sell it at all, they'll want something like royalty payments and/or exclusive marketing rights if you use the Insteon name on software developed with the SDK. My reading of the agreement though is that you can market software developed with the SDK as long as you don't use the Insteon name. It doesn't sound like there's any library code either, so they couldn't restrict distribution that way.
It's still all a bit of a crock of course and would make selling anything developed a lot harder. We still haven't decided if it's worth the business risk to start a development project, the kit price though is in the noise. We haven't ordered one yet just so we can talk to people about it. Once you sign the agreement it seems like you can't discuss it any further.
Maybe like the old Unix (U**x) stuff it would have to be marketed as for I*****n ;-}
That's why we're still on the fence. I think we'll just wait and see what happens with Insteon and independent developers. Currently it looks pretty scarey at best.
Insteon PLC is a proprietary signalling method developed by Smarthome. It is a little faster than X10 signals.
Martin Custer
They have updated their online specs. They still give few details but there's enough to get the gist of what they are doing. Go to
The bit rate is high but they send lots of bits per command (192). Using their sustained rate figure, they can send one command per half-cycle of the powerline using BPSK modulation (which will make it tough for DIY hardware design). Each command appears to end in an 8-bit checksum and all commands are acknowledged. I suspect they will have X-10 like problems with continuous noise and signal suckers (They have phase couplers and filters.) but the high bit rate, checksums, acknowledgements and repeats should provide decent reliability in the face of sporadic noise.
Their RF 'network' has no routing tables so its repeaters just fill the vicinity with the signal. The number of repeaters will need to grow geometrically with the size of the area to be covered.
They use a low PLC signal level but each Insteon device repeats the signal so they probably get adequate coverage.
They give no details for the RF other than carrier frequency and modulation (904MHz FSK).
By "X-10 compatible" they appear to mean it can coexist with X-10 although their desktop controller can send Insteon or X-10 PLC. The Insteon modules do not repeat X-10 PLC signals. There's no compatibility of the RF frequency/protocol.
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