WRT54G in the attic

Thanks Nancy. That's what I thought too and wanted to confirm my suspicions.

I'll look to install it in an upstairs bedroom somewhere where the environment is much more reasonable.

Thanks again, Doug

I've had an AP above my garage for 2 years and it still works fine.

Just for the record, Linksys quotes these figures in the data sheet for the WRT54G:

Operating Temp. 32ºF to 104F (0ºC to 40ºC) Storage Temp. -4ºF to 158ºF (-20ºC to 70ºC) Operating Humidity 10~85% Non-condensing Storage Humidity 5~90% Non-condensing

...

"Doug" wrote in news:IEwng.53193$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:

One other thing to consider is the lifetime of unit. At elevated temperatures the consumer-grade electrolytic capacitors just aren't going to last very long. Its probably not a big deal with a $50 access-point, but still needs to be figured into the equation.

From

* Electrolytic capacitors are devices with a well defined wear out mechanism, the evaporation of the electrolytic fluid used in these capacitors. High quality electrolytic capacitors have a service life of 10,000 hours at 105 °C, the life roughly doubling for every 10 °C lower temperature. Very cheap small electrolytic capacitors have a service life of 1000 hours at 85 °C.

-wolfgang

"Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"

wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ancho.wsrcc.com:

A good point. But don't automatically assume that Linksys uses consumer-grade electrolytics - e.g. most consumer market motherboards use high-spec aluminium components.

I'm somewhat bemused to read the upper operating temp (40C) - not unknown even here in the UK.

BTW: wikipedia is not a reliable source of factually accurate information.

Frazer Jolly Goodfellow hath wroth:

Well, yeah, sorta, maybe. There are two basic types of electrolytics.

85C and 105C. Tearing apart my handy WRT54G v1.1, I find that it uses G-Luxon 105C electrolytics with various values. Ok, they're not junk. The caps appear to be rated at 3 times the applied voltage, which is very conservative and should yield a long lifetime: Power Supply input: 220uF 25v and 470uf 35v PS output (3.3vdc): 220uF 16v

The problem with electrolytics is that the voltage rating and lifetime decrease rapidly above the rated temperature. Capacitor life drops rapidly with increasing temperature. See the graphs at:

are for much larger caps, but are generally characteristic of electrolytics. There's no much on the Luxon web pile, but the basic data shows that rated lifetimes are something like 2000 hrs at maximum ratings. voltage or temperature will last longer per the previous graphs.

Incidentally, "end of life" is typically 105C for 85C rated capacitors and 120C for 105C rated capacitors.

I've seen motherboard CPU filter capacitors, where heating is far more extreme than with routers, using 85C capacitors. It's one of the things I look for in rating a quality board.

It will not be the electrolytics that limit the upper temperature specification. It will be something like the flash ram, MAC/radio chip, or "power amp", dissipation that will cause problems. I've seen a few reports of users tweaking the tx power to the 250mw maximum output and blowing up their WRT4G routers. My guess is that it overheated by itself or with some help from high ambient temperatures.

That's easily solved. We have a Wi-Fi FAQ at:

is looking for user contributions, corrections, and editing. If you find something wrong, then you're always welcome to make corrections or debate the point with the authors. Other articles on Wikipedia have similar policies. Controversial issues are always handled by providing multiple points of view. Personally, I find the Wikipedia quotation on capacitor lifetime to be quite accurate.

Rather than an attic, is there a closet or something upstairs you can use? Remember you also need electric, and if DSL, a phone line. I had mine in an upstairs bedroom closet.

You don't need the phone line if you can run the WAN net cable (Cat5) to the router

mike vore wrote in news:qZLng.1498$Gh.1451@trnddc02:

A WRT54G doesn't connect to a phone line.

Of course not, but he has DSL, and guess what, DSL needs a phone line! Sure he could run Cat5 from the current location to the new router location instead, but it's a whole lot harder and way more expensive to run cat5 than a phone line...Gads.. People are so silly and never think of what's needed for a total implementation, or what the cost is of alternatives...

Where do you get that idea? I run CAT5 for all my phone wiring, as the price of the cable is irrelevant compared to the cost of running it...

Are you sure you're going to still have wireless coverage by moving it to the attic? The normal antennas provided with it tend to have a rather flat coverage area. There's not a lot of vertical beam coverage. What sort of added coverage are you looking to get by moving it to the attic?

-Bill Kearney

Uh, CAT5 is the same type of wire as a phone line and similarly priced. Yes, a CAT5 line has 8 conductors and a bare-bones phone line could have as few as just two. Regardless, the method you'd use to install them is the same. And the cost per foot has negligble difference.

As for moving the DSL unit, why bother? Why put a *second* piece of equipment in a harsh environment? Unless it's more a 100 meters to the DSL modem then it's probably better to avoid stuffing it up in the hot attic. I find it's generally best to arrange the phone lines such that the DSL modem gets it's own line directly from the outside network interface (demarc) and the run all other house lines through a single DSL filter. Better than that the usually hassles of making SURE there are DSL filters plugged in all over the danged house.

So what's silly now? It would certainly be silly to run a phone line, if none were already present, when a CAT5 line would cost nearly the same (prolly no more than around $5 difference). It'd also be silly to BAKE the DSL modem by cramming it in the attic when it doesn't need to be there.

-Bill Kearney

Apparently you weren't following the thread.. He currently has it in the basement, and the suggestion I added on to was to put it in on a shelf in the upstairs bedroom closet (not the attic like the subject line says), that way it would be higher, not in the hot attic environment, easy to run power to it, and even a phone line in the upstairs room can be tapped off... (if possible, we have 4 wire everywhere, first pair (two, green and red) are phone and second pair (two, black and yellow) are dsl, no steenking filters needed :) (in many older homes the second pair was to power the lights in princess phones/amps/etc), if you change all the wiring in the jacks, you can totally isolate it. Biggest prob is way older homes that only had three wires and shared one).

Seems like your point only makes sense *IF* in fact it goes in the attic (as the subject line says), but not if it goes in the second room upstairs (as the post I responded to suggested)

I live in the Las Vegas area, and I have a WRT54G in my garage. The temperature can soar to 115 degrees. I haven't had any problems...

In the UK, this isn't true on either count. The 8-core phone cable is around half the diameter, while the 4-core stuff is about the size of a couple of matches stuck together, and is handy for tucking into odd corners., under skirtings etc The pairs also aren't always twisted. It also tends to be white, while CAT5 comes in most colours except white, with grey being commonest.

Thanks for all the replies. Here are my plans based on the upper temperature spec from Linksys along with more details:

Run some power to an upstairs closet that has shelving and put the WAP there. I have a spool of CAT5 I was given, so I'm going to make the cable and keep the DSL modem where it is in the basement (family room).

I have four computers that are wireless; two desktops and two laptops. One desktop is upstairs in a bedroom, the other is in the family room (basement) and the two laptops get used mostly upstairs as well. Of course, they are occassionally used elsewhere in the house.

So, the question is, and maybe this was my assumption to begin with, will the linksys provide better coverage if it's placed in a higher location? I believe that since the majority of the computers are also upstairs, they will/may benefit by having the WAP closer.

Thoughts? Thanks! Doug

For what it's worth, at my house in MD, I had my Linksys/cable modem combo in the ground floor/basement (street side even with ground, but the ground slopes and the back of the bottom level is actually even with the ground in the back), and couldn't get much of a signal other than in the ground floor/basement area.. Now I have it (and the modem) on the third floor in the office, and get a super signal all over the house (all 3 floors), bedrooms on the second floor, and even out in the back yard with my PDA..

Didn't work the same in my place in Idaho though, there is a steep metal snow roof on that house, and the metal snow roof blocks the signal when it is up high (in that place I had to put it downstairs on the first floor to get a signal outside).

What sort of a place do you have? (metal/stone walls etc?)...

Just a simple logical question... Do radio and TV stations have their broadcast antennas up high on a tower(or mountain), or on the ground level in their studios?