WRT54G in the attic

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I want to move my WRT54G into my attic so that it gives better coverage.
It's currently in my family room which is in the basement (which is also
where my DSL modem is).

The question is, how would the WRT54G deal with the heat during the summer
and the cold during the winter? Certainly, the attic gets hot in the summer
and cold in the winter.

Thoughts?
Doug



Re: WRT54G in the attic


i wouldn't too extreme temperatures....not to mention the possibility of
high moisture content in the summer...do you have an upstairs conditioned
room????
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Re: WRT54G in the attic


Thanks Nancy. That's what I thought too and wanted to confirm my suspicions.

I'll look to install it in an upstairs bedroom somewhere where the
environment is much more reasonable.

Thanks again,
Doug

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Re: WRT54G in the attic


Just for the record, Linksys quotes these figures in the data sheet
for the WRT54G:

Operating Temp. 32F to 104F (0C to 40C)
Storage Temp. -4F to 158F (-20C to 70C)
Operating Humidity 10~85% Non-condensing
Storage Humidity 5~90% Non-condensing

...


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Re: WRT54G in the attic



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One other thing to consider is the lifetime of unit.  At elevated
temperatures the consumer-grade electrolytic capacitors just aren't
going to last very long.  Its probably not a big deal with a $50
access-point, but still needs to be figured into the equation.

  From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_life

    * Electrolytic capacitors are devices with a well defined wear out
      mechanism, the evaporation of the electrolytic fluid used in
      these capacitors. High quality electrolytic capacitors have a
      service life of 10,000 hours at 105 °C, the life roughly
      doubling for every 10 °C lower temperature. Very cheap small
      electrolytic capacitors have a service life of 1000 hours at 85
      °C.

-wolfgang
--
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht                http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang /

Re: WRT54G in the attic


"Wolfgang S. Rupprecht"

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A good point. But don't automatically assume that Linksys uses
consumer-grade electrolytics - e.g. most consumer market
motherboards use high-spec aluminium components.

I'm somewhat bemused to read the upper operating temp (40C) - not
unknown even here in the UK.

BTW: wikipedia is not a reliable source of factually accurate
information.


Re: WRT54G in the attic



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Well, yeah, sorta, maybe.  There are two basic types of electrolytics.
85C and 105C.  Tearing apart my handy WRT54G v1.1, I find that it uses
G-Luxon 105C electrolytics with various values.  Ok, they're not junk.
The caps appear to be rated at 3 times the applied voltage, which is
very conservative and should yield a long lifetime:
  Power Supply input:  220uF 25v and 470uf 35v
  PS output (3.3vdc):  220uF 16v

The problem with electrolytics is that the voltage rating and lifetime
decrease rapidly above the rated temperature.  Capacitor life drops
rapidly with increasing temperature.  See the graphs at:
  http://www.bhc.co.uk/pdf/TD003.pdf
which are for much larger caps, but are generally characteristic of
electrolytics.  There's no much on the Luxon web pile, but the basic
data shows that rated lifetimes are something like 2000 hrs at maximum
ratings.  
  http://www.luxon.com.tw/radialcap.htm
Lower voltage or temperature will last longer per the previous graphs.

Incidentally, "end of life" is typically 105C for 85C rated capacitors
and 120C for 105C rated capacitors.
 
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I've seen motherboard CPU filter capacitors, where heating is far more
extreme than with routers, using 85C capacitors.  It's one of the
things I look for in rating a quality board.

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It will not be the electrolytics that limit the upper temperature
specification.  It will be something like the flash ram, MAC/radio
chip, or "power amp", dissipation that will cause problems.  I've seen
a few reports of users tweaking the tx power to the 250mw maximum
output and blowing up their WRT4G routers.  My guess is that it
overheated by itself or with some help from high ambient temperatures.

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That's easily solved.  We have a Wi-Fi FAQ at:
  http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi
that is looking for user contributions, corrections, and editing.  If
you find something wrong, then you're always welcome to make
corrections or debate the point with the authors.  Other articles on
Wikipedia have similar policies.  Controversial issues are always
handled by providing multiple points of view.  Personally, I find the
Wikipedia quotation on capacitor lifetime to be quite accurate.

  
--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: WRT54G in the attic



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I've had an AP above my garage for 2 years and it still works fine.



Re: WRT54G in the attic


Doug wrote:
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Rather than an attic, is there a closet or something upstairs you can use?
Remember you also need electric, and if DSL, a phone line. I had mine in an
upstairs bedroom closet.



Re: WRT54G in the attic


Peter Pan wrote:
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You don't need the phone line if you can run the WAN net cable (Cat5) to the
router

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A WRT54G doesn't connect to a phone line.

Re: WRT54G in the attic


Frazer Jolly Goodfellow wrote:
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Of course not, but he has DSL, and guess what, DSL needs a phone line! Sure
he could run Cat5 from the current location to the new router location
instead, but it's a whole lot harder and way more expensive to run cat5 than
a phone line...Gads.. People are so silly and never think of what's needed
for a total implementation, or what the cost is of alternatives...



Re: WRT54G in the attic


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Where do you get that idea?  I run CAT5 for all my phone wiring, as
the price of the cable is irrelevant compared to the cost of running
it...

Re: WRT54G in the attic


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Sure
than

Uh, CAT5 is the same type of wire as a phone line and similarly priced.
Yes, a CAT5 line has 8 conductors and a bare-bones phone line could have as
few as just two.  Regardless, the method you'd use to install them is the
same.  And the cost per foot has negligble difference.

As for moving the DSL unit, why bother?  Why put a *second* piece of
equipment in a harsh environment?  Unless it's more a 100 meters to the DSL
modem then it's probably better to avoid stuffing it up in the hot attic.  I
find it's generally best to arrange the phone lines such that the DSL modem
gets it's own line directly from the outside network interface (demarc) and
the run all other house lines through a single DSL filter.  Better than that
the usually hassles of making SURE there are DSL filters plugged in all over
the danged house.

So what's silly now?  It would certainly be silly to run a phone line, if
none were already present, when a CAT5 line would cost nearly the same
(prolly no more than around $5 difference).  It'd also be silly to BAKE the
DSL modem by cramming it in the attic when it doesn't need to be there.

-Bill Kearney


Re: WRT54G in the attic


Bill Kearney wrote:
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Apparently you weren't following the thread.. He currently has it in the
basement, and the suggestion I added on to was to put it in on a shelf in
the upstairs bedroom closet (not the attic like the subject line says), that
way it would be higher, not in the hot attic environment, easy to run power
to it, and even a phone line in the upstairs room can be tapped off... (if
possible, we have 4 wire everywhere, first pair (two, green and red) are
phone and second pair (two, black and yellow) are dsl, no steenking filters
needed :) (in many older homes the second pair was to power the lights in
princess phones/amps/etc), if you change all the wiring in the jacks, you
can totally isolate it. Biggest prob is way older homes that only had three
wires and shared one).

Seems like your point only makes sense *IF* in fact it goes in the attic (as
the subject line says), but not if it goes in the second room upstairs (as
the post I responded to suggested)




Re: WRT54G in the attic


On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:42:43 -0400, in alt.internet.wireless , "Bill

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In the UK, this isn't true on either count. The 8-core phone cable is
around half the diameter, while the 4-core stuff is about the size of
a couple of matches stuck together, and is handy for tucking into odd
corners., under skirtings etc The pairs also aren't always twisted. It
also tends to be white, while CAT5 comes in most colours except white,
with grey being commonest.

--
Mark McIntyre

Re: WRT54G in the attic


Are you sure you're going to still have wireless coverage by moving it to
the attic?  The normal antennas provided with it tend to have a rather flat
coverage area.  There's not a lot of vertical beam coverage.  What sort of
added coverage are you looking to get by moving it to the attic?

-Bill Kearney


Re: WRT54G in the attic


Thanks for all the replies. Here are my plans based on the upper temperature
spec from Linksys along with more details:

Run some power to an upstairs closet that has shelving and put the WAP
there. I have a spool of CAT5 I was given, so I'm going to make the cable
and keep the DSL modem where it is in the basement (family room).

I have four computers that are wireless; two desktops and two laptops. One
desktop is upstairs in a bedroom, the other is in the family room (basement)
and the two laptops get used mostly upstairs as well. Of course, they are
occassionally used elsewhere in the house.

So, the question is, and maybe this was my assumption to begin with, will
the linksys provide better coverage if it's placed in a higher location? I
believe that since the majority of the computers are also upstairs, they
will/may benefit by having the WAP closer.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
Doug

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Re: WRT54G in the attic


Doug wrote:

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For what it's worth, at my house in MD, I had my Linksys/cable modem combo
in the ground floor/basement (street side even with  ground, but the ground
slopes and the back of the bottom level is actually even with the ground in
the back), and couldn't get much of a signal other than in the ground
floor/basement area.. Now I have it (and the modem) on the third floor in
the office, and get a super signal all over the house (all 3 floors),
bedrooms on the second floor, and even out in the back yard with my PDA..

Didn't work the same in my place in Idaho though, there is a steep metal
snow roof on that house, and the metal snow roof blocks the signal when it
is up high (in that place I had to put it downstairs on the first floor to
get a signal outside).

What sort of a place do you have? (metal/stone walls etc?)...

Just a simple logical question... Do radio and TV stations have their
broadcast antennas up high on a tower(or mountain), or on the ground level
in their studios?



Re: WRT54G in the attic



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It will only provide better coverage if the clients are covered by its
antenna pattern.  The problem is that the standard "rubber duck" antenna
radiates much more energy sideways than down.  So at least you'll
probably want to reorient the antenna.

--
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