Wireless drops with NO notification

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Hello,
I have XP Home SP2 bundled with my notebook and my notebook has
Broadcom BCM4318 wi-fi adapter on it.
And i have US Robotics Wireless router. I'm having frequent wireless
drops which are not notified with in "taskbar" or in "event log".

For example, when wireless connection drops between router and
adapter, the wi-fi taskbar icon is still seemed as "connected" and
connection time counter contiunes to count seconds as well. Also i'm
using Broadcom's 3rd party wireless software with same drop-
notification-free symptom.

I tried plenty of workarounds to get rid of wi-fi drop with no
success; At first times i was thinking the wireless drops were because
of bad notebook or router positioning, then i brought notebook and
router  into the same room with resulted same drop problem. Also i
tried all channels 1,6,11 with no help.

I tried these resulted with no help:

1-Moved router and notebook into the "same" room (signal strength
reported "perfect", signal level goes around -50 to -65dbi)

2-Disabled WZC(Wireless Zero Configuration), used Broadcom's native Wi-
fi utility.

3-Uninstalled-Reinstalled drivers of Wi-fi

4-Removed "my" cordless phone to have a test, but i cannot intervene
to my neighbour's wireless networks or devices(phones, ovens) as it's
their freedom of living.

***The only soultion to get rid of this frequent drop problem is to
click XP's "repair" connection button, or disabling - re-enabling
wireless connection brings wi-fi to life.

Any useful help will be aprreciated so much as last chance.

Regards...


Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


kimiraikkonen wrote:
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I have had this on several occasions and the connection hasn't dropped
it's just that data couldn't be transferred, router was still showing as
being logged on.
Most common problem was interference from other networks, on one
occasion a neighbour was using "Turbo" mode on a router and swamped
several channels.,
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When you say "all channels" do you mean all channels or just 1,6 and 11?
Have you checked to see which channels are used by the networks in your
location?
1,6 and 11 are always the ones that are recommended so everyone just
seems to use these and forget about the others and it is sometimes
worthwhile trying 4 and 9.
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Does it actually fluctuate by 15bB?

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Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


Hi, "kev" and thank you for taking care my problem.

First, I only tried channels 1,6 and 11 which are loopback channels. I
didn't tried another channels because of being unsure of stability and
performance of channels excluding 1,6 and 11.

The unluckiest thing is that i have a lot of wireless routers and
networks of course around my building of my neighbour's.

I'm sure i'm dropped because when this drop is experienced eventhough
it seems connected in system tray or in apps, i connect Cat5 cable and
connect to router over cable, then i checked "wireless client list" of
router and my notebook disappears in the list. That prooves wireless
drop. When wireless is stable and normal, my notebook is listed in
"wireless client list" of router.

Signal quality goes between -50dbi and -60/65dbi with no change of
router/notebook placement.
Noise level does not go worse than -90dbi.

Anyway i'll keep using other channels, but is it safe and stable using
channels except 1,6 and 11?

I'll inform the advancements.

Thanks...


Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


kimiraikkonen wrote:
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I have just done a quick scan of my router and the signal hardly fluctuates.
http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=apal7.jpg

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I am sure you are aware of "Overlapping", however I have found when
using wifi indoors the attenuation due to house construction is such
that the overlapping signal level is so small that it has minimal, if
any, effect.
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Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


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Looked at your statistics and it's almost the same with me. So, what
to do? Do you say signal/noise/SNR values normal? What is the reason
of drop in your opinion?

Also which channels should i use except 1,6,11 with safe and stable?

Thank you.


Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


kimiraikkonen wrote:

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That was normal without any interference from other networks.
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Without doing a scan of your neighbours networks to see which could
cause the biggest problem it is difficult to say.
For me:
1x neighbour uses Ch 11 but his signal is about -75dB
2x neighbours use Ch 6 one has a signal of about -62dB and the other -83dB
2x neighbours use Ch 1 one has a signal of about -70dB and the other -80dB

The largest amount of interference is the Ch 6 one at -62dB so after
much experimenting I use Ch 9 and have had no problems for several months.

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Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


Does your notebook drop on a public Wi-Fi hotspot?  If so, you've got a
problem with your notebook.  If not, suggest you try a different
wireless router (e.g., Buffalo).

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:09:17 -0700, kimiraikkonen

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--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com
John Navas      FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


Hi.


If you are using an ethernet cable from the SAME laptop to check your
router, then yes, the wireless will, by default disconnect from the
router when you plug in your ethernet cable anyway.  Make sure it's a
different pc you are using to check  the laptops wireless connection
to your router.

Fine, possible false test but not important.

I've had the same problem in an environment where there is no
interference. Appears to be connected, but no ping to router.   Repair
works as does going into services and restarting wireless zero
config.  In my case am pretty sure it's on the laptop's end.

So do some swapping out to see.  As John said, try the laptop with
it's built-in on other APs or hotspots to see how it performs then.
Also, you can get a cheap usb adapter and see if you have the same
problem on the same machine with a different adapter.

Another thing:  is there any correlation between this problem and
hibernating or shutdowns?

Just for kicks, I would be uninstalling and reinstalling the client
drivers and utilities with generous restarts. Clean it all out of
there and start again.

Also it may be a windows thing, and something needs to be rebuilt.
Sometimes installing another wireless adapter (USB adapter)  and then
going back to your built-in will toggle something in Windows.


Steve






Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


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Hi Steve,
I have an ADSL 2+ router with AP feature connected to only my
notebook. John and you offer me to try notebook with a different AP or
hotspot? Am i right? (sometimes it's not easy to apply this idea, but
worth to try when conditions are possible). I also tried re-installing
adapter drivers latest.(Broadcom 3.46.100, i don't know newer,
researched). Also i didn't install and try with a USB adapter.

I tried disabling WZC and using Broadcom's self utility with no help.
No relationship about abnormal shutdowns and hibernations.

Also, how did you solve the problem of yours which is the same of me
Steve? As you experienced, it seems connected, but cannot ping anywere
including router. The only solid evidences i found are signalling
decreasements worse than -60dbi. And speed decreases to worse than
36mbps when problem occurs with no router and notebook placement
change.

So, How did you solve yours? (I don't think it's interference but i'm
not sure)

Thanks.


Re: Wireless drops with NO notification



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Sorry, I can't give you a simple answer.   To be honest, it's happened
to me a couple of times on different laptops and adapters and
depends.  Sometimes it says its hooked up like with you, other times,
it just won't get an address.  I kinda lump the two together and
forget which solution worked for which.

Sometimes it's the laptop and just reinstalling the utility has fixed
it.  I rememeber that once or twice, plugging in another adapter, like
a USB, using it,  then going back to the built-in somehow broke the
logjam.

The other day it happened again, right after I answered you.  I
changed a simple  unrelated setting on the router and then it
rebooted, as usual.  When it came back on, my laptop said I was
connected, but no ping, no internet.

 I went through a few of the above-mentioned moves, but I knew the
router had gotten bent outta shape on the re-boot, so I got off my
butt and hiked over to it (another hill) and unplugged and replugged
it.  A re-boot.  That fixed it.  Our router (Buffalo) is generally
reliable though, and it has only done that twice in nearly a year of
constant fiddling.

So, it may just be your router.

Unless it's easier to just spend money, first try the USB with your
laptop and your router and then try a hotspot as suggested.  Once you
have done that, you will see where the problem lies. If the USB works
fine with your router,  then it's your built-in.  If your laptop works
fine at a hotspot (or a friend's house) then it's something with the
router.

Hope that helps.

Steve




Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


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Hi Steve,
First of all, thank you for answering with such a detalied and
familiar answer. I'll keep in mind trying with a different USB adapter
but i've a few questions:

My router is US Robotics USR9108 and US Robotics are the most
respected and expensive routers available in my country. Netgear and
Linksys can be found very less and Buffalo cannot be found, isn't
distributed.

1-What happens and what are the dangers of trying channels EXCEPT
1,6,11? What makes special channel 1,6,11? Why do people offer
channels 1,6,11?

2-US Robotics's USB 125mbps adapter USR5412 can be found and set up
with 125mbps MaxG connection that suits my router, but i read some
consumer reviews with these complaints: "Signal strength is much more
less than built-in ones, and consumptes much more power when using
with notebooks"
Link of product: http://www.usr.com/support/product-template.asp?prod=5421

3-Today i experienced 2-3 drops again with urgent results. Drop
occured with no notification again, seems connected (Broadcom utility
or WZC-XP Home_SP2) and "repair" function locked up the computer,
resetted computer then established connection again... The Singal was
under -50dbm and noise was below -95dm...

So, what do you say for these statements?

Thank you...


Re: Wireless drops with NO notification


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Sorry, my experience is limited to Linksys and Buffalo and Apple.
Maybe Jeff or somebody can tell you more about USR.  I know they made
good modems back in the day.

It looks like it's expensive, has many features in the firmware and
terrible customer support. (What else is new?).

Here's what a quick search for user reviews on your router show:

" The setup is easy and intuitive. I have got the DSL configured and
up in no time; however, I face problem connecting to the wireless;
'coz' it kept comes on and off!. I had to disable the wireless on the
USR9108 and use my old one. I have not configured the print server
yet; trying to resolve the wireless problem first "

" I  have a Maxg USR 9108 which i brought for having a wireless
network at home. So far i have not been able to configure it as a
wireless router."

"As far as the wireless go, this router seem to be outperformed by my
Microsoft MN700. I'm getting better distance with the MN700 with
better reception between structures (ceiling, floors, walls). "





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No dangers.  It's just that you want as much seperation as possible
from other signals to avoid interference. They overlap quite a bit, so
1 and 3  or 7 and 10 will interfere with each other.   So, if there
are two signals in the air, keep them far apart- 1 and 11 are the
farthest apart in the US.    If there are three, then use the middle
one too (6) and you are still fairly seperate.  If there are more than
three in your space, then I suppose the other channels allow a little
bit of seperation, but you are probably going to get interference.


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I can't tell you much except that if you do nothing (no shutdown,
hibernate, no changes) and all of the sudden it drops, then I don't
believe it's the laptop.  I'm leaning towards a router or interference
problem.

I suppose it could be compatibility issues between the router and the
built-in, but I'm guessing wildly.  Besides the other two tests, you
could try restricting the connection speed on the router to 12 Mbps
speed and see if anything changes.

Really, the two tests we mentioned will tell you more than guessing
about it.


Steve


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