Tiscali & Netgear DG834G

Why call Tiscali? Does Tiscali offer support for the Netgear router?

The problem you seem to be having is connecting from computer to router, so nothing that Tiscali can do, other that give you guidance and advice, will help this problem.

I assume the router is brand new and unconfigured and you're running Windows XP. Is that correct? What wireless equipment is in your computer and are you able to have Windows display the information that it can detect the presence of a wireless access point named NETGEAR?

Tony

Get one, you will need it to configure the router. You simply cannot do it over the wireless link.

Whoever said that had no clue.

Get an ethernet cable, plug your PC into the router, and follow the instructions in the manual for configuring it to work with your BB connection and PC.

Then, and only then, remove the cable and try to diagnose the wireless problems. Mark McIntyre

Mark McIntyre wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Nonsense, it's dead easy.

Really? I've done a bit of digging to see what goes wrong when I try to change wireless settings while connected via the wireless. It seems that a very long setup URL, full of gets from settings boxes, tends to get truncated while sending. The URL limit is 256 characters and some of these huge setup URL's come close. What happens is that the web server starts decoding the HTML in the order received, and issuing commands to the router firmware in the order received. If it gets changing the channel, encryption key, SSID, authentication, rebooting, or something that precipitates an immediate disconnect, it will be executed before the client has finished sending the very long URL.

This doesn't happen with every router or on every web page setup. However, I managed to screw up a WAP11 v1.1, DWL-900AP+ and a BEFW11s4v4 with this method by trying to configure the wireless settings via wireless. No problems when I tried it with a WRT54G using DD-WRT v23. No clue on the DG834G.

Of course, one shouldn't even think of doing a firmware update via wireless. Any interruption would be fatal.

Bottom line is that you can probably use the wireless link to safely configure the non-wireless settings in a router, but don't try to change anything on the wireless pages that might initiate a premature disconnection or reboot. The manufacturer, just about everybody else, and I all recommend configuration be done via a wired connection.

That is clear, but that is the subject of the thread.

You were doing so well and then fell off the wagon again :-)

Tony

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Yes.

I've never encountered such a crappily designed beast. Every router/access point I've configured has a two-stage process: set the configuration changes you intend to make then click a single Save Settings or similar button to actually implement the changes.

If you are methodical about making the settings you can do it successfully every time. e.g.

1 Create a new text document and type up the SSID and WEP/WPA key settings you intend to use. 2 Copy and paste the settings into the router setup screen. 3 Tell the router to implement the changes, which will drop the and restart wireless link. 4 When the client discovers the restarted WLAN, click View Available Networks, select it and choose Connect. 5 Copy and paste the WEP/WPA key into the client WLAN settings. 6 If you are setting up several client PCs, copy the file created in step 1 to removable media (flash disk?) and repeat steps 4 and 5 on each client PC. [this assumes the router has wireless switched on by default, with no encryption or a default encryption key]

Agree, there's a risk of creating a hi-tec doorstop.

See above.

There is no way to do that with the DG834G. It is totally impossible to put it into an irrecoverable state without physical or electrical abuse. Even if a firmware update is interrupted or corrupted the equipment is recoverable with the Netgear supplied software tools. I have updated the firmware locally by wireless and also remotely from 3000 miles away over the Internet and never ever had a problem.

This is a thread about a particular brand and model of router but we are receiving the "benefit" of well intentioned but ignorant advice from people with little or no experience of it.

Tony

Frazer Jolly Goodfellow hath wroth:

I beg to slightly differ.

Welcome to the wonderful world of bottom of the line routers. Fast, cheap, reliable; pick two. The industry and customers seem to have selected the first two.

You must be used to the real Cisco routers and IOS. Tweak the settings from the command line of upload a page full of commands and settings. When it's all working, run: copy running-config startup-config Well, that's the way I also like to do it. Same with flash upgrades, where the router has twice the flash memory as required and can switch between the old and new flash images with a single command.

That's where the problem starts. The client sends the settings to the router (via wireless) as a very long URL. It doesn't just send the item that was changed. It sends the entire page.

The problem is that that router parses the long list of settings in the order in which they are received. If the change in SSID or WEP/WPA key is early in the setup string, the router may disconnect the wireless link or even initiate a soft reboot before it is done parsing the subsequent settings. A properly designed system would store the entire line before executing any changes, but that's not what seems to be happening. I've been meaning to dive into the WRT54G source code and see if that's really the way it works.

See one of my assorted previous rants on the idiocy of routers being shipped insecure and wide open by default. Your proceedure should work with what I guess to be perhaps 90% of the routers, firmware mutations, and situations, and is probably safe. I do it something like that myself when I feel brave (or lazy). However, when I can't afford to make a mistake (i.e. wireless access point is sitting on a rooftop or a tower), I do it via ethernet only.

So is falling off a cliff. That doesn't mean to say it will usefully do anything.

For example when you're setting the encryption settings, you will lock yourself out.

But go ahead, knock yourself out. Mark McIntyre

Clearly you have no experience trying to configure retail routers like this. I have. It won't work. You /will/ screw the clients router and have to use the little button to reboot it.

I can only assume you have never worked with retail consumer-grade routers.

Mark McIntyre

"Anthony R. Gold" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I freely admit my relative ignorance of updating the DG834G (and other routers) firmware over wireless. Updating router firmware is something I only use where necessary - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Other forms of firmware upgrade are or have been notoriously risky e.g. power failure during a motherboard BIOS update.

Kudos to Netgear for good design in this case. However, unless I am sure of my ground, my instinct is to use caution when updating a router's firmware.

Your apparent attitude problem is not endearing.

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Nope. I'm talking about devices by Linksys, Netgear, D-Link, 3Com, Belkin, Draytek, Zyxel, US Robotics, SMC, BT, Compaq and a few others.

Mark McIntyre wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Nope. I'm talking about devices by Linksys, Netgear, D-Link, 3Com, Belkin, Draytek, Zyxel, US Robotics, SMC, BT, Compaq and a few others.

Mark McIntyre wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Nonsense. If you know the encryption key that *you* have just set(!) you can reconnect and continue.

See my post on a methodical approach to setting up the router.

Then you're even more clueless than I thought. Mark McIntyre

Who said anything about the key?

Lor, how we laughed. Mark McIntyre

His attitude? You're the loon who has alrady admitted knowing nothing about the router under discussion. Mark McIntyre

Mark McIntyre wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

... please explain, your comment doesn't make sense to me.

Mark McIntyre wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You did: "For example when you're setting the encryption settings, you will lock yourself out."

... please explain, your comment doesn't make sense to me.