The Router Blues..

Have you ever considered separating the router part of the puzzle from the wireless part?

There are several advantages in your situation.

1. You can install more than one wireless access point to improve the coverage. Since the access points have few complications, you should not run into router related bugs. Also, you can purchase somewhat cheaper wireless routers and use them as access points (ignore WAN port, disable DHCP server, and set to unused IP address).
2. If you have complex router requirements, perhaps a Cisco, Netscreen, Sonicwall, or other fancy router would be more appropriate. The feature set on these high end routers are much better than what is found in most cheapo wireless routers.
3. Most high end routers have dual flash memory for firmware. When you load the new flash, the old flash is still in half the memory. When you're sure the new flash is working, then a single command switches to the active flash image. No way to easily turn it into a brick.

As for firmware updates, every last lousy router and wireless router I've ever purchased has needed a firmware update on arrival. My guess(tm) is about 50 assorted routers this year. I have never turned one into a brick. However, I've helped quite a few people recover their flash. The usual mistake is trying to update the flash via a wireless connection, or updating with the wrong flash image.

I have had my Linksys BEFSR11 (one WAN port, one LAN port) for about 5 years now - 7 x 24 x 365 ... I have it with the current firmware and it's running like a champ!!

I did pay about $120 for it back then ...

I finally went out a bought a new router. Yet this is the 6th new router in less then 2 years now! I'm a router expert now after configuring more than a dozen over these in the last few years now. I did a firmware update on my last Netgear router, and I suspect that it screwed my remote access up. Hence no one could connect to my FTP, HTTP, or SSH servers.

I've tried various models of LinkSys, Netgear, D-link, and Belkin. By far the Belkin was the biggest piece of shit I've even seen, followed very closely by a LinkSys router. Firmware upgrades have a 0-10 history of completely ether leaving the router worse then when I started, or turning it into a doorstop!

It's not too much that these routers are not good for consumer use, it's more that I'm using it as a muti-port forwarding for running servers in my personal arsenal. The average person just using it as a secure multi-net device, wouldn't even know that there is a problem, because they aren't using the advanced features that they claim they have on the box. God help the guy who actually holds these companies responsible for what is says it "does" on the package. I questioned the tech on the phone about why these advanced features don't work as advertised, they don't give me answers, only.. "please return the product to the store".

I figured out that the standard method of operating for these router companies is as follows:

1) Make the new hardware as fast as possible, just to get it on the self. 2) Barely finish the firmware, that barely works on the new router. 3) Once the customers start calling in with problems, fix the remaining problems and bugs that they knew existed, but didn't make it into the finished product.

This model works because most all of the customers simply don't use all the features like port forwarding. A real shame if you ask me, something that cost near 200 dollars should be "finished" when it's put on the self at the store.

Anyway..

New router is a D-Link DI-624M with MIMO technology. The MINO is a new kind of antenna. Router is B,G,super G, and pre-N. Still doesn't seam to reach my "dead" zones in my daughters room, and the reception is still weak at best. However, it's working for now. Advanced features and all. D-Link routers have the reputation of the signal quality going down the tubes over time, and you have to unplug your router once a month to do a reset of the wireless signal. I wonder how long this one is going to last.

So, I've tested my network by going to remote sites, and coming back to see if I can get in from remote. It appears to be working. The Netgear router had apparently screwed up the network routing so much that it even reached out to a sbcglobal routers and screwed them too. Once the new router was put in, it seams to be slowly fixing itself, and I'll be testing tonight for more info.

"The router blues"..

Take Care everyone, and thanks all of you for your help on this.

-Richard

Richard Ragon wrote in news:htUae.93$zu.28 @newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Hmmm...

I hold no brief for D-Link, but this is not my experience, nor have I experienced any problems with port forwarding etc. My current D-Link based network has worked fine since 2003. I can't remember the last time I had a problem - perhaps 18 months ago?

I am however waiting for the rash of so-called 'pre-N' models to be replaced by the real thing, at which point I will upgrade. At the moment there is litle incentive to do so.

My Linksys wireless router went without problems non stop 24/7 365 since

2001 and finally burned out. So I wonder if you're even protecting the equipment properly by doing what amounts to just plugging the router into an electrical wall outlet and it's taking the hits from other household appliances switching on and off all the time spiking the lines and could be casing the router to go defective.

And I am not taking about some surge protector power strip lying on the floor and is plugged into the wall outlet as some kind of protection.

Duane :)

It never ends.

My BEFW11S4v4 hangs every few days. I've found that it's not anything in the router but attacks from the internet. Try this test:

hangs on two of the tests (forgot which ones). The interesting part is that I also lose connectivity to the internal web browser when it hangs, so the symptoms are similar.

The Linksys WRT54G routers I install in offices and coffee shops seem to hold up better. No router exploits problems, no mysterious hangs, and no random disconnects. Recommended.

Try searching Google for "di624 hangs". 1200 hits. Now try "wrt54g hangs". 560 hits. Obviously, not all are related to the router hanging in the manner you experienced. However, this should give you a clue as to the extent of the problem.

Yep. Don't assume that all DLink products are this bad. They buy from various manufactories in China with varying standards of quality and reliability. The boxes may all look similar but it's the chipset, firmware, and layout that make the difference.

Nope. There doesn't appear to be any firmware updates on the Dlink web pile. You might try disabling the enhancements beyond 802.11g and see if that helps. Otherwise, just teset to defaults and exchange it for something else.

Not all the same problems. God.. I love people who just plug in there router, leave admin access at admin/admin, don't use a single advanced feature, and then say, "it's working for me".

Each router has it's own issues and problems. Some of them minor, some major. For example, the Netgear runs 24x7, and is loaded with advanced features, however, it will not do port forwarding from public ports, to a different private port. Lets say you have 2 web servers. both on port 80. You can take WAN port 80 and forward that to a LAN IP port 80. But you can't open WAN port 8180 and forward it to LAN IP port 80. This can easily be done on any other router.

I got around this, by simply making one web server in my network, and using accounts to samba over to another machine.. kind of a lot of work in setup, but oh well.. the router didn't have any major flaws like the others..

So difficult that it took the SBC guys setting here 4 hours online with the tech support crew that couldn't figure out why a traceroute would get stuck in their network.. they left simply just throwing their hands in the air...

Within plug-in in a new router, it solved the problems, however it took about 48 hours to purge the tables in the network, and clear itself after the offending router was replaced.

A real heartbreak of a frustrating problem because after you removed the bad Netgear router here, the problem still remained within the SBC network.. It took about 48 hours to clear.

-Richard

Yes. I have thought of that. Good point too. I was thinking of getting more ports with a non wireless switch perhaps, and running eithernet cables over to multiple AP's using those apple airport express units. That thing worked great, but it wouldn't work as a WDS rely, only with a eithernet plugged in.

Excellent point, Jeff. At this point, I'm so disappointed with these other routers.. I expected a lot more when you fork out 100-200 bucks!

Excellent point again.

Hence this backs up my theory of the fact that it's BAD when it leaves the shop and lands on the store shelf.. The problems are only fixed once the customers start calling in with issues.. This is a lousy way to do business!!!

humm. Ok. Thanks..

And..

The saga continues...

Just discovered that my problems are NOT over still.. The very latest is that I now have the new D-Link 624M.. And all appeared to be good. However, my daughter just informed me that her internet was down. I just tried to log in via 192.168.0.1, and it refuses. Great..

I tried my laptop, and yep.. No Network in sight..

So, since this is my 3rd Dink, and since I know D-links have a long history of having to reset them every so often, I unplugged the router and plugged it back in..

Bam. It's all working again.. That's just f****ng great.. A new router that I have to keep unplugging to reset every single week!!!

This is a NIMO turbo 4 antenna router (that doesn't get any better reception than the others) that suppose to be B,G, and pre-N.. going right back to the store once again I guess..

Should I even bother calling the tech support on this one??

-Richard

Humm.. interesting.

Perhaps I can try Linksys one more time then.

Oh boy.. maybe I should have done this for all routers for now on.

I thinking of starting a new website..

peiceofcraprouter.com Simply listing all the problems with the various routers. I know I can get others to join in and help.. I know I can't be the only one who actually puts these routers to the test, and finds the faults.

real bummer

Thanks.. as usually, your comments are very useful. Thanks.

-Richard

No other product has such wide spread support and fan clubs. We have a local free wireless group: uses WRT54G routers exclusively for hot spots. No problems other than the usual Linux learning curve.

I had some bad experiences with various Linksys products in the past. I have a large hole in my bank account from trying to use early WAP11 radios for a WISP. I also had a large number of BEFSR41 routers simply blow up, or clear NVRAM for no obvious reason. My home BEFW11S4v4 was the result of a dissatisfied customer. I have several EFSP42 print servers that apparently have gone intermittent (package leakage or metal migration on the PCB). Therefore, when literally everyone I knew recommended the WRT54G for hot spots, I was justifiably worried. I'm not sure how many I've resold or installed, but I think it's about 10 so far. Other than my near fatal experiments in firmware transplants, I've had zero problems. I monitor the traffic with SNMP and the only dropouts are from DSL or cable modem issues, not the router.

It's important to remember that ALL the vendors buy their hardware from China, Taiwan, Korean and such. They stuff them in artsy packages, maybe scribble some firmware, but basically are at the mercy of the hardware manufactory. Some are winners, others are losers. No way to tell from the advertising, vendor, or appearance.

Sorry. You're too late. I've already registered: 80211junk.com I also registered 11junk.com so I can do: 802.11junk.com It's not ready for prime time yet so this is very premature.

I do have an agenda, but it's not a blacklist. Just a bunch of photos of what's inside, what makes it tick, where it comes from, and the results of some of my bench testing. I've done quite a bit of this but the data is owned by my clients. I'm trying to get a release from the NDA but am having problems. Meanwhile, some photos and a few articles will suffice.

Also, one thing I'll be doing is generating an index to the FCC web pages by model number and FCC ID. That's the only useful way to separate the various mutations and hardware variations for a given model number.

Y'er welcome.