Spanning two houses 1/3 mile apart

Got a cabin in the mountains and the local cable ISP wants $70 month for an internet connection and that is way too much for occassional use.

My neighbor lives on a hill about 1/4-1/3 mile away. I could see his house if not for the trees so I don't have a good LOS.

My goal is to have a box in my cabin that will allow me to connect my laptop via both the Ethernet cable and Wireless card as I need to be on two VPN's at the same time for work using virtual machines. Also need to connect my Vonage phone...basically need my own hub...don't think I need my own "network".

My buddy is running a Linksys 802.11G router/WAP.

I think a couple of 9dB (Hawking?) directional antennas pointed to intersect above the trees will cover the distance but am wondering what the best solution on my end for the hub would be. Open to new/better antenna options too.

Most routers/WAP are designed to be connected to a cable/DSL modem. I need my hub/AP to connect via the wireless network and be able to provide wireless and wired access....Will the standard router/WAPs do that? If not, what do I need?

Peace,

FarmerG

Reply to
Greg Schisla
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On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:44:30 -0500, "Greg Schisla" wrote in :

Unfortunately, Wi-Fi doesn't penetrate trees. If you can't get clear line of sight (including Fresnel zone), consider running buried Ethernet cable.

There no such thing as radio wave "intersection" -- radio travels in a straight line, and you need clear line of sight.

Reply to
John Navas

Ethernet cable of 1/4 - 1/3 mile (400-530 meters). Would that work?

Reply to
Roby

Normal thin ethernet 10/100base-T - no, 70m max.

However thick ethernet (10base-5) has a theoretical segment length of around 500 metres (eg see

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You'd need to find network equipment capable of utilising it of course. Thick ethernet trancievers and NICs with AUI ports are quite rare these days.

An alternative if you can live with low data rates would be to set up a serial line. 56K modem at each end, phone cable between the two, that sort of thing.

Reply to
Mark McIntyre

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:15:17 +0000, Mark McIntyre wrote in :

Another option that's much faster (e.g., 2 Mbps) is to use special "dry pair" DSL modems (e.g., Pairgain 300S) at each end, but it's not cheap.

Reply to
John Navas

Roby hath wroth:

No. I've gone 275 meters with 10baseT-HDX (half duplex). It won't work at 100baseTX. The official maximum ethernet length is 100 meters. I've also gone about 275 meters with coax cable using RG-6/u and 10base2 (cheapernet). However, I'm fairly sure there is some manner of timing limit at about 400 meters of CAT5e and coax. It's easy enough to test with a 300 meter roll of CAT5e. Just put connectors on both ends and try it. The biggest headache will be be forcing the speed down to 10baseT-HDX.

You might be able to make it work with an ethernet switch at midpoint acting as a repeater. You can power this switch with PoE at 48vdc if local power in unavailable. I don't know of a product that will be suitable and cheap but can do some digging.

There are also ethernet line extenders that will work out to several km. See:

etc. The catch is that they are very expensive.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Yes, if you used extender boxes. And NOT EXPENSIVE.

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Kit - Ethernet HyperExtender Lite Product ID: NH-300EEKIT

1Mbps point-to-point Ethernet connection up to 5,000 feet $148.50 for a kit of two units.

Kit - Ethernet HyperExtender XL Product ID: NH-300SEKIT

1Mbps point-to-point Ethernet connection up to 1,600 feet $117.8 for a kit of two units.
Reply to
decaturtxcowboy

OK....I've gotten other feedback that makes me believe I can make the wireless solution work with a couple 24 dBi antennas. It's only 1/4-1/3 mile and the target house is on a hill overlooking my cabin. 90% of the distance is open space with the need to only penetrate a few trees before the LOS will be above an remaining trees between the two targets.

Due to job requirements (I'm doing this so I can work from the cabin) I'll need to run a virtual machine on my laptop which uses the wireless connection, the host OS which needs to use the Ethernet connection and the Vonage phone will need a connection.

Assuming the signal is present, will something like a Linksys WRT54GS allow me to use a static IP from the host network for the Linksys device and then use it as a local router for my wireless laptop, hardwired connection and a vonage VOIP router or do I need different/additional hardware to manage my "secondary" network?

Reply to
Greg Schisla

Good luck when the foliage comes back in a couple months.

Does 5GHz ("A" WiFi) have different attenuation characteristics for folaige. A 5GHz dish is *really* focused.

Reply to
Al Dykes

It's worth a try. I can afford the antennas and if it doesn't work well enough, I can find other uses for the equipment and have other neighbors I could share my connection with if I end up getting my own from the cable company.

Anyone want to answer my real question instead of giving me grief ?

Reply to
Greg Schisla

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:01:10 -0500, "Greg Schisla" wrote in :

That would be double NAT, a bad idea. What you need is a wireless Ethernet (client) adapter (for the long distance connection) cabled to a wireless access point (for your local wireless). For both devices I'd recommend Buffalo units running DD-WRT firmware, with the high-power version for the long distance connection.

You do realize that your buddy will need a dedicated wireless access point for you, right? (The directional antenna at his end would probably prevent him from using it for anything else.) That's a total of three (3) boxes dedicated to your wireless hookup.

Good luck.

Reply to
John Navas

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:28:57 -0500, "Greg Schisla" wrote in :

Not grief -- reality and real answers. Don't presume to criticize the messengers just because you don't like the messages. ;)

Reply to
John Navas

Thank you. That is what I was looking for.

I figured I needed a front end wireless link on my end but didn't think about the other end. Need the router even if I got my own connection so its not adding too much cost to get another e-net receiver. At $70 a month, it won't take long to pay for the hardware and I'll learn something in the process.

Peace,

Greg

Reply to
Greg Schisla

Would you be able to get enough power down 275mtrs of cat5? I'd suspect the loss would either heat the cable too much, or lose too much voltage. I recall that 100mtrs is about the max. Be interested to see some calcs tho.

Reply to
Mark McIntyre

Not wireless router -- wireless access points (or wireless router configured as a wireless access point). You only want _one_ router on the combined network, and your buddy already has one.

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:07:53 -0500, "Greg Schisla" wrote in :

Reply to
John Navas

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:33:28 +0000, Mark McIntyre wrote in :

Most PoE products are only speced to 100m, just as for the signal, and don't work well at much longer distances in my experience.

Better to use "dry pair" DSL modems.

Reply to
John Navas

Hi all,

VDSL modems - Long reach Ethernet is the best answer to this case.

VDSL can run over normal copper wires - twsited pair ( Cat3) cables for

1.5Km (4500 feet) distance with 5-15Mbps throughput ( depends on real distance).

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It's very easy to install with no need for configurations .

I have used ZyXEL P-841C (Master) and P-841-25 (Slave) in many sites ..... it's perfect.

PC ----VDSL Modem (slave) --------- 2 wire cable ------ VDSL (Master)

---- PC or LAN.

Panda,

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Reply to
Panda

No, but consider running a direct burial utility cable, and using twisted pair/10base-t.. That's what I did from the house to the building out back... Went for the 20 cable pair so I could do phone/network/intercom/etc (1000 FT about $160).. While at it, I also ran (in the same ditch) direct burial power cable so I had ac out back too (about $489 more).. Using separate buried cables lowered the interference enuf that I didn't need coax. rented a "ditch witch" for $189 to dig the 2 foot ditch to the back...

Turns out it was a great thing, during the winter (northern idaho), while there where no green stuff in the way, usual snow was about 3 ft on the ground, and that would have really messed with LOS...

Some other things I looked into before settling on the direct burial cables, was powerline networking (network to the utility building over the power cable), also looked into power over ethernet, and having inline amps on the cable every 100 yards or so, with the power on the ethernet cable itself....

Reply to
Peter Pan

Its not a matter of power, per se, but too much noise. Sure you could increase the power level, but then that increases the noise.

Reply to
decaturtxcowboy

You'll want to come out of one of the LAN ports the router with the internet connection to either another AP or some other device that will allow you to create a bridge. From the AP/Bridge you'll want to point a directional antenna pointing at your destination. = One AP/bridge and one Antenna and feedline.

At the destination you'll need directional antenna, feedline and client bridge to connect to the remote AP/bridge. From the bridge you'll want to connect one of it's LAN ports one of the LAN ports on your AP. turn off any DHCP server on your AP. Plug in your vonage phone/router/thing to your AP. You should have wired and wireless connection at the destination.

This is all assuming that you can make the connection.

Adair

Reply to
Adair Witner

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