rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?

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We've got a cul-de-sac with a half dozen homes, and
are interested in getting a high speed connection
and sharing it. Our local cable provider (Charter)
provides 30 meg at a price that would work out.

(most of the folk here are part timers so the speed
should be adequate when shared)

Placing a Linksys model mumble mumble five y/o in the
windowsill almost gets enough connectivity, so we figure
that putting it up on the roof would work out.

What we're looking for is a unit that's reliable and
can handle the multiple connections - possibly up to 50...
without crashing.

Bonus points for something that's powered by POE, so we
can run low voltage up there.

Prefarbly something intrinsically designed for outdoor use
with a professional enclosure. Alternatively we can
build a weatherproof box...

We realize this won't be fifty dollars...

Suggestions? Thanks


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
             dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 00:21:03 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

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Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 00:21:03 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

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grumble...can o'worms...grumble


To me, it sounds like you just described something from Ubiquity.
I'll leave the specific recommendations to someone else.
<www.ubnt.com>


Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?

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Low density area, with only two or three others barely in range
when testing from a ladder next to the roof... (another bunch from
our own small group, of course).

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Lots of the equipment, for example TiVos, are legacy 802.11b/g.
(and yes, I know about the TiVo bandwidth issue when people
pull down videos...)

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ALready tested... I set up the windowsill and visited the
neighbors using my laptop. Got decent coverage that was
just-about-almost ok. (not including a basement)

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The 50 is worst case. We figure that each household nowadys
can have up to ten WiFi devices... but it's unlikely most
of them will be active, or at least heavily active, at
the same time.

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Sounds good. PoE is much more civilized.

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They'll give us a second for another ?twenty? per month. More
or less. Something not too horrendous.

- If you want ugly pricing ask about a fixed IP...

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Understood if we're looking at a large base. But it's just
a half dozen, of which we're one. Yes, famous last words...

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Well, I'm from the generation that spent six hundred dollars
for a 2,400 baud modem... so I'm not going to scream at
commercial grade pricing.

Thanks again. UBNT looks good.

- oh, and Charter might actually have 50 megs donstream
in our area rather than 30. On cable, no less, not fiber.

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
             dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 03:38:15 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

Incidentally, thanks for not mentioning a mesh network.

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I think you need a demonstration of how bad it can be.  Setup two
access points and two client machines on the same RF channel.  Setup
one to download some streaming video.  Setup the second pair to do
some manner of speed test (using IPERF or JPREF).  What you'll
probably find is that the speed test will be severely impacted by the
streaming video traffic.  Try it again, this time using an adjacent RF
channel.  You should see the same impairment until you get about 3-4
channels away.

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Like I said, just getting a strong signal isn't enough.  Try a speed
test (IPERF or JPREF) and see what happens.  If that's too much
trouble, just ping the router and see if the latency remains constant.
If it climbs, and then returns back to its original value, that's
packet loss, which suggests that you may have an interference problem.

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You missed my suggestion of using 5GHz.  It's not that much more
expensive.  That provide each hose with a single connection to the
central access point.  Each house then has their own 2.4Ghz wireless
router, which is used to connect to the usual mess of 2.4Ghz devices.
If you use 2.4Ghz for everything, then you'll need connectivity to
your central access point from every part of the house.  That's often
impossible.  It also creates a bandwidth problem if there is any
client to client traffic, such as running a media server.  It also
eliminates the use of wi-fi repeaters (range extenders) which I
detest.  Think really hard about using 5GHz client bridges.

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These daze, there are very few applications that need a static IP
address in order to function.  Some of the online games are allegedly
a holdout.  No clue which ones.  The only real requirement is if
you're hosting a mail server in order to have a working DNS MX record,
which your customers should not be doing anyway.

Incidentally, if Charter ever gets IPv6 going, it might be possible to
buy IPv6 blocks and not use NAT.  Don't hold your breath.

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You're probably also going to eat your words.  A 5 user system can be
thrown together out of just about anything.  A 50 user system has to
be properly engineered and planned.

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Not to worry.  Anything you buy today, will probably be obsolete
tomorrow.

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Careful.  Make sure that's a sustained 50Mbits/sec, not a peak.
DOCSIS 3.0 is nifty.  How about 305/65Mbit/sec from Comcast:
<https://www.pcworld.com/article/259824/comcast_rolls_out_305_mbps_internet_service_fueled_by_verizon_fios.html

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?

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Well, I did the next best thing. I had two TiVos d/l video
from the same mumble mumble Linksys AP. The bandwidth
from the "cable modem" connection passing through
the Linksys was adequate.

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I ran various speedtests that were linked to from dslreports.com.
Looked good excet for a few places.

- we're not talking long distance, and the houses are primarily
light wood frame. No (thank you, thank you thank you), none
of that plaster-over-metal-screening I've had to deal with
back in NYC...

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I guess I wasn't clear in that I had, indeed, tested that out.

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Umm, uggggggghhhhh. That would be a killer. And, natch, I
hadn't even thought of that one... ouch. Double Ouch.
Triple Ouch..

Thanks for that warning.

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well, I've measure steady 30 meg (well, more like 20-25) d/l
in the 30 meg areas. (not sure how much of that reduction
is avoidable). So it looks like they're not just using
the "burst" deal. (hmm, what's their marketing name
for that? something like powerboost?)

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Admit it. We're all tempted to move to Kansas City...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
             dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 04:14:38 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

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Careful, it's Kansas City, Kansas, not Kansas City, Missouri.


Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 04:14:38 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

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You weren't measuring your local wireless speed impairment.  You were
measuring the speed of the cable modem connection.  Try setting up an
IPERF/JPERF server on your LAN and don't bother using the internet for
speed testing.  I really don't know what you'll see, but there should
be some evidence of bandwidth sharing between devices.  

Also, some streaming (i.e. Pandora audio) is not really streaming.  It
comes in a burst just before the end of the previous tune with no
traffic in between.  Try using YouTube or just stream HD video from a
local media server.

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No dry wall?  No stucco?  Sounds ideal as dry wood is fairly
transparent to RF.

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That's what switches and bridges are all about.  The wireless bridge
keeps the traffic with source and destination MAC addresses on one
side of the bridge.  If you make everyone connect to the central
access point, the benefits of such bridging is lost.

Incidentally, make sure that your router can do "AP isolation" (which
is misnamed and should be "client isolation".  That will prevent your
neighbors from getting into each others systems.

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I'm in one of those rural areas which every connectivity proposal
before the FCC allegedly addresses.  Too bad that they never seem to
arrive in my rural area.  However, I shouldn't complain.  We have
areas where there is no service.  Comcast recently had to be arm
twisted into supplying service to some of these areas.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?

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No stucco (well, maybe a spot here and there). But yes, they
fo have drywall inside.

- no "foil" barrier on the insulation. Why yes, it's your
  basic el cheapo contractor minimal construction...

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We're actually lucky in that we have two separate wireline telcos
who both provide DSL... (yep, one of the few neighborhoods
with an actual "overbuild"). The cable speed is much better,
but having the DSL alternative comes in handy every year when
the cable co. tries raising our monthly charge when our
"intro rate" runs out.

It's been three times (iirc) now that this has happened, and
I told them we'd be switching to DSL... and they offer us
the intro rate for another year.

- we also have a mix and match of wireless options, both
from the various "cellular" companies and also a couple
of WISPS.

on the other hand... last week the telco central office
hiccupped, knocking out both their wire lines _and_ a
hefty chunk of wireless. (The CLEC and cable phone circuits
were ok).

- and.... it took out the 911 PSAP. The outage shouldn't
have killed 911 for more than 1 minute or so... but they
didn't have secondary circuits coming into the center.

- and in that case, it shouldn't have taken more than 15
minutes before all 911 calls (from those who had phone
serice) should have been rerouted one town over...

It took 15 hours to get service back to normal.

- oh, and there's MORE. The outage also killed
off the... the NWS All Hazards Radio. That station
is a _key_ portion of emergency communications, and
they're supposed to stay up and broadcasting for
anything up to a Russkie nuclear ground blast.
(well, ok, I'm exagerrating a bit. but those
stations have _lots_ of secondary alerts that
are slaved to them).


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
             dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Re: rec's for bullet resistant semi-outdoor unit?
I think the 5.8G point to point is a good idea. Think of the 5.8G links
as a backhaul. With the 5.8G between houses, you know exactly the number
of links/users. You could even set up the link so they talk to specific
MACs. That will reduce the number of wifi thieves.

The only problem is it makes work for the folks on the remote end.


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