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Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
wrote:

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Corrected version of the above:

No problem as 2.4GHz goes through walls better than 5GHz.  However, it
does not go through holes and perforated obstructions as well as 5GHz.
It also requires more Fresnel Zone clearance.  There are also dual
band AP's which work quite nicely.  The problem here is that it's
difficult to provide a dual band antenna with anything more than a few
dB of gain.  

I forgot to ask, can you run 150ft of direct burial CAT5e between the
two houses?  That would greatly simplify the problem.  The official
maximum for CAT5e is 100 meters.



--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Not easily and I'm not keen on the lightning  
damage risk with that approach.  

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Sure.  

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Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 14:43:29 +1000, "Rod Speed"

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I put radios (and weather stations) on mountain tops.  We don't get
much lightning in my area (US west coast near Monterey Bay) but enough
that lightning protection is a good idea.  Some possible solutions:

1.  Use an ethernet surge protector or ethernet lightning protector.
<https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/ethernet-surge-protector/
Plenty of others available:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=ethernet+lightning+protector
None of these will protect against a direct hit.  What they will do is
protect against a ground hit, where the current through the ground
presents a substantial voltage difference between the ends of the
cable run.  I've had this problem a few times, where the devices at
both ends get blown to pieces, but everything else survives.

2.  Install a sacrificial ethernet switch at each end.  Nothing fancy.
Just a cheap 5 port 10/100/1000 switch.  If you get hit, the switch
blows, but the more expensive routers and AP's stay alive.  I had one
that switch that I simply walked the cable from port 1 through port 4
as they blew up.  

3.  Use fiber optic link.  These are getting very economical.  I'm
installing these on mountain tops if possible.  Well, that's not quite
right since I'm no longer doing the actual installs.  Let's just say I
influence what gets installed.  Can't ask for better lightning
protection.  I don't really have any favorite hardware at this point.
Mostly, I use 100baseT to 100Base-FX media converters such as:
<https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704015
Fiber connectors are SC or ST depending mostly on customer politics
and not technology.  Making the fiber cables and terminating the
connectors requires a bit of skill but are not impossible. 3M makes a
hot melt glue system where you cut and trim the fiber end, slide on
the connector, dump it into an oven, extract, cool, polish, and you
have a connection.  Like this:
<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3fCwFifA5s

Polishing is the hard part.  Or, just buy pre-terminated fiber cables.

Anyway, think about the wired or fiber alternatives to wireless.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558


Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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We also have "bucket routers" (i.e., routers under buckets) scattered all
over these mountains, which seem to last longer than the cables do (the
animals chew them, for example, or trees fall, particularly Bay and
Monterey Pine, which are weak trees overall.

While nothing is simpler than running a cable from Rod Speed's router to
his neighbor's router, I think Rod said his neighbor doesn't have a router.

So you still need an approximately $100 USD investment in "something".  

Given Internet in the USA is roughly between $50 and $100 USD a month, it's
one month's investment in a Ubuquiti radio (give or take), which seems
worth it. With that one investment, Rod can paint the neighbor's house with
adequate signal that all the Android devices will likely read as pretty
good.

Given the iDevices and computers may still have issues receiving signal,
it's "only" another month's investment in two radios, but, then you also
need another month's investment in a router at the end of that second
radio.

IMHO, Rod should plan on one radio with good antenna specs (which basically
necessitates a dish or sector, doesn't it Jeff?) and sensitivity (they're
all pretty good on the sensitivity spec, I think).  

If that one radio doesn't work for all devices in the neighbor's home, then
Rod doesn't have to rip out the first radio - he just adds the second radio
on the side of the neighbor's house - and - a WiFi router, and the second
home is all set.

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Sat, 2 Sep 2017 21:00:56 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay

misc.phone.mobile.iphone deleted from the distribution because there
is nothing in this thread that has anything to do with iPhones.
Never mind that I don't like Apple, iPhones, etc.

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Yep.  If he runs a cable or fiber between houses, I would install a
wireless router setup as an AP (access point).  That means the WAN
(internet) port is not used and the DHCP server is disabled.  The
cable or fiber from Rod's router goes to one of the LAN ports.

However, there's one stupid problem with this derangement.  When
anyting goes wrong, someone invariably punches the reset button,
causing everything to return to the defaults.  That enables the DHCP
server.  Having two DHCP servers on the same LAN will create some
rather strange connectivity symptoms.  After a few too many late night
service calls to fix a reset problem, I've resorted to using a real
access point.  Netgear WAC104:
<http://www.netgear.com/business/products/wireless/soho-wireless/WAC104.aspx
I've only installed one of these so far.  No problems with throughput,
better range than the Linksys it replaced, QoS works, 4 LAN ports, and
no reset problems.  However, the antennas are not removable, IPv4
only, the configuration a bit complicated, and a bit pricey at about
$60.  Too soon to tell if it's a winner.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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80' would be nice, but it isnt essential, 40' would do fine.

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What we call brick veneer, a single layer of bricks on the outside,
what you lot call drywall on a timber frame on the inside, no
metalised reflective insulation sheet between them. The house
has its long axis facing me, something like 50 % windows.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgtmp97346thid4/File%202-9-17%2C%2014%2001%2044.jpeg?dl=0

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Nope, normal single glazing standard glass.
The bottom half isnt glass, a form of
weatherproof composition board.

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Nope.


But the Medion P85019 (MD 86977) wifi repeater with no
external antennas under a bucket half way down their
backyard, next to a metal fence  that's 5' high works fine

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Medion P85019 (MD 86977)

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Its not a router, it's a very basic wifi repeater/access point
used in wireless repeater mode.

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Yeah, that's why I am changing to avoid
the need for the power cycling.

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Nar, its definitely not a condensation problem.
We routinely see 10 days over 100F most summers
and the daytime RH is routinely in the single digit %
and it can feel like you're standing in front of an oven
even just checking if there is anything in the letter
box and the washing hung on the line can be dry
by the time you finish pegging out a single load
in those conditions.

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No it doesn't and there isnt any obvious pattern to it.

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But the Medion P85019 (MD 86977) is 2.4MHz only and works fine.

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Sure, happy to stick with 2.4GHz.

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Its not that absolute, but easy enough to do.

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Yes, that's how it works.

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They don't appear to offer it.

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I don't either given that I would have
to pay for a vpn as well with fixed IPs.

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Sure, but that would be quite acceptable to me.

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Sure, but my router does that fine.

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I do those manually, every few years when a problem shows up.

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Sure, but given it's an unlimited plan, I don't care what
they do and since I get about 110/45 I wont even notice
whatever he does. Even if they somehow win the lottery
and start binging on netflix etc, I wont even notice.

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Neither really. That photo is taken about where the AP will
be, just higher, and you can see that there isnt much at all.

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Leaves only.





This is a talk conventional radio station in our state
capital, hundreds of miles away from where we are.

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This radio station doesn't work like that. It has its own android and iOS  
apps.

2SM in Sydney Australia, tho that may or may
not be visible in your respective app stores.

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Works fine with no pauses over the Medion P85019 (MD 86977)
which is half duplex and only 300.
  


Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Dunno if it will matter, but there's a 5-foot high chainlink fence, isn't
there?  

Jeff - would that matter?

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Nope, sheet metal fence. You can see it on the far right of the photo.

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Cant see it, an AP at roof level where the photo was taken
would be looking down on its top edge like the camera does.  


Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Sun, 3 Sep 2017 10:16:43 +1000, "Rod Speed"

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It would be nice to know where the fence is located along the 150ft
path length.  I realize that it's at an angle, so just give me an
approximation of how far from your prospective access point where it
crosses the fence.  Basically, it has to be some radius from the
centerline of the 150ft path at midpoint, and less if the fence is
away from the midpoint.  You can estimate the numbers (they're not
critical) from this graph:
<https://tomclegg.ca/fresnel
150 ft is 0.046km.  Only the 1st Fresnel zone is important.  

Oh-oh, I did something wrong.  It's not a 12ft radius as I previous
claimed.  This calculator shows 1.2m clearance (4ft) from the center
line.  That's more reasonable.  

Back to the illumination angle.  "Roy Tremblay" mumbled something
about difficulty getting a transmit signal from the house and using a
higher gain dish antenna.  Both are wrong, but I'm not going to burn
time and bytes right now doing damage control.  I estimated the
illumination angle needed to light up the entire house from 150ft at
56 degrees.  If you have a protractor, you might want to measure this
angle.  Basically, whatever contrivance you select, the horizontal
beamwidth (radiation angle) cannot be less than this 56 degrees or the
end parts of the house will not receive any signal.  Actually, it
should be more than 56 degrees to deal with alignment errors and
because the signal level is already -3dB (half power) at the edges of
the illumination angle.

The Ubiquiti Nanobeam and Powerbeam products won't work because with
13 or more dBi of antenna gain, the beamwidth is too narrow. Something
like maybe 10 degrees scraped from the graphs.  If you use one of
those, you'll have great coverage over about a 10 ft wide horizontal
piece of the house, and nowhere else.  Again, you need 56 degrees or
more to cover the entire house.

So, let's try the Ubiquiti NanoStation LocoM2 for about $50.
<https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostationm/
<https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/nanostationm/nsm_ds_web.pdf
Looking at the graphs on Pg 7, the horizontal beamwidth (at -3dB
points) appears to be about 90 degrees.  Good enough and we have a
candidate.  Now for the link budget calcs.  
<http://wireless.navas.us/index.php?title=Wi-Fi#Link_Calculations
See tables on Pg 6 and 7.  Since your neighbor is using ordinary
laptops, tablets, and phones, the connection will probably be via
802.11g.  At less than 24Mbits/sec (or 12Mbit/sec throughput), that's
+23dBm transmit power and -83dBm receive sensitivity.  Antenna gains
are an optimistic +8.5dBi.

Loco M2
TX power       +23 dBm
TX coax loss   0
TX ant gain    +8.5 dBi
Distance       150ft (0.0284 miles) = -73.3 dB path loss
Brick losses   -5.5dB
RX ant gain    -4 dBi (typical for a smartphone)
RX coax loss   0
RX sens        -83 dBm
Fade margin    ???
    
When I add it all together, I get a receive signal level of -51.3 dBm
and a fade margin (SOM) of 31.7 dB which is quite good.  You should
have no problem making this thing work.

You can also use the Ubiquity NanoStation LocoNSM2 which has a larger
antenna and more transmit power, but costs $100.  Beamwidth is 60
degrees.  See Pg 10 and 11.

Loco NSM2
TX power       +28 dBm
TX coax loss   0
TX ant gain    +10.4 dBi
Distance       150ft (0.0284 miles) = -73.3 dB path loss
Brick losses   -5.5dB
RX ant gain    -4 dBi (typical for a smartphone)
RX coax loss   0
RX sens        -83 dBm
Fade margin    ???

That yields a receive signal level of -40.4 dBm and fade margin (SOM)
of 42.6 dB.  That's better than the LocoM2 and would probably be a
better choice (at twice the price).

So, what could go wrong?  

I didn't include the effect of the steel fence, which is going to have
an effect.  I can't calculate the exact effect without knowing its
exact position and elevation of the access point.  My guess(tm) is it
will be negligible if you mount the antenna with 4ft of clearance.

I'm a bit worried about the laptops, phones, and tablets at the
neighbors.  They might be trying to use them in an RF reflective
environment, which might cause some cancellation.  

When you're outside, there's always a chance of picking up some
interference from other wi-fi systems.  Be prepared to change your AP
channel if that happens.
  
You'll need a Atheros PoE adapter.

Good luck and I hope this setup will work for you.





--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Hey Jeff,  

Since I am all about helping people, I already wrote this up for people
like Rod Speed to follow, written on Feb 20th of this year for this
specific Nanobeam attached to my Linksys WRT54G wired extender.
-  How to set up Ubiquiti Nanobeam M2 as an Access Point, wired to a wired
extender, on WISP?  
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.internet.wireless/bntXcBthi7o/sRvoqauSCQAJ
https://s26.postimg.org/hwz0upjwp/accesspoint.jpg

Does my writeup look detailed enough to you for Rod Speed to accurately
follow to successful completion?

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 12:30:41 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay

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The default password is ubnt, not ubn.

Your instruction are probably good enough.  I can't check them unless
I have a unit in front of me.  I did a quick skim and didn't find
anything that might be a problem.  Well, maybe offering instructions
for XP, when most users are probably on Win 10.  I really like that
you include what to expect on the screen or lights after making a
change.  That's often missing from instructions.  However, posting
such multistep instructions to Usenet can be a problem.  Make a
mistake, or want to add something, and you're stuck.  Next time, I
suggest you make it a web page or sharable Google document, make
changes online as needed, format it better, and point a link to it
instead.  

Hint:  Don't write instruction in the past tense as if it were a port
mortem.  Mixing past and present is also bad.  Use only the present
tense as if you're walking someone through it step by step.

I noticed that you included disabling AirMax when using it as an AP.
That's where I first screwed up, and where most others seem to do the
same.  AirMax=ON is the default, which is not what you want.  You
should probably emphasize the importance of this setting.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Ooops. Thanks. That was the last character in a cut-and-paste, where my VIM
editor on Windows habitually drops the last selected character. The missing
letter wouldn't trip us up but it might trip up people unfamiliar with the
default Ubuiquiti password so thanks for that admonishment.

The *second* post of that thread is really the full writeup, where I fixed
the missing "t" in the login/password. The first post was just the
question, but nobody helped me so I solved it on my own and have been using
it every since.

One problem you brought up for Rod Speed was that a nanobeam 18dBi dish
antenna of the NBE-M2-400 US (which is also known as a powerbeam) had a
lousy beamwidth pattern for 150 feet whereas I'm only going about 50 feet
through thick walls and the back of a bathroom mirror.

It works as an access point to the room on the other side of the thick wall
and bathroom 50 feet away (maybe even a bit less than 50 feet), so I wonder
why it works since you're saying the nanobeam may not even work for Rod
Speed - but he needs to paint the breadth of a house while I only need to
paint a roughly 20-foot square room.  

I'll see if I can adapt your math to figure out why it works in such close
quarters where the distance is about 30 feet to the wall, and then there is
a bathroom wall facing the radio (at an angle) with the back of a mirror
and a shower, and all that entails, and then ten feet from the bathroom is
a room where I'm trying to feed the access point signal to.

It works. But you brought up the beamwidth issue which I had not thought of
and for which I'm unfamiliar wkith the math (although I've seen the
radiation pattern charts on the specification PDFs).

Am I looking at the right angle information (for both Rod and for me)?
1. Page 12 of this PDF http://site.microcom.us/nbem2400.pdf
2. And pg12 of this PDF http://www.doubleradius.com/c.283276/site/stores/ubiquiti/Ubiquiti-NanoBeamM.pdf
Shows a "Horizontal Azimuth" chart with an initial beam width of +/- thirty
degrees.  

The polar chart doesn't mention the distance to each of the six radiating
circles in the diagram, but I probably am in the first circle, which means
it's still at +/- thirty degrees (which is sixty degrees wide).

It works, without doing any math, but I thank you for bringing up the fact
that the area painted is a function of the distance to the radio at that
60-degree wide angle.

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Thanks. Yes. I agree. I don't really understand AirMax but I think it's a
special Ubiquiti-only protocol between two radios. If Rod Speed has only
one radio, he wants to disable AirMax which is on by default. If Rod has
two radios, then maybe AirMax makes sense because it would presumably
improve his connection.  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 00:44:46 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay


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The antenna pattern charts are thoroughly confusing because of MIMO
(also known as 802.11n).  In order to distinguish between the two
independent signals or beams used by the MIMO in the NanoBeam,
Ubiquiti calls one signal "vertical" and the other "horizontal" in
honor of their relative polarization.  The direction, relative gain,
and pattern are called "azimuth" and "elevation".  When used with
802.11a/b/g which use only one signal, I think (which means I'm too
lazy to check) that only the "vertical azimuth" and "vertical
elevation" patterns are used.  In other words, you're using the wrong
pair of beam patterns.  Fortunately, the other two are sufficiently
close so your numbers will be unchanged.

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There is no distance.  That's not how an antenna pattern works.  The
outer ring is defined as 0dB, which is a reference level established
by the strongest signal in any direction.  Every other point on the
pattern is at a signal level that is less than 0dB.

Doing it that way is highly convenient.  For example, let's pretend
you aim the dish antenna at a distant receiver.  You maximize the
signal by swinging the antenna.  If it's designed correctly, the peak
signal should be when the dish is pointed directly at the distant
receiver.  If not, you have what's called a "bore sight error".  You
then scribble down the maximum signal level (in dBm).  You can then
use the antenna pattern to calculate the signal level at any point of
the compass (azimuth).  If the outer ring were a distance, which makes
all the points on the plot absolute values instead of relative values,
you couldn't do that.

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Perhaps it would be helpful if I explained why I have a preference for
calculation over "it just works".  One problem with my calculations
are that they are the best case numbers.  Everything that brings the
numbers closer to reality makes the range and coverage worse.  If I
threw in reflections, Fresnel diffraction, interference, component
variations, tolerances, and just plain lies on the data sheets, the
range would be less and the coverage patterns smaller (or less
coverage).  The question my calculations answer is "Under ideal
conditions, does this thing have a chance of working"?  If it doesn't
pass that test, I usually don't bother trying it and look for a better
solution.  

Of course, something unexpected will always appear that were not
considered in the calculations.  In this case, it was a steel fence. I
still don't know exactly where it is located or what effects it might
have on Fresnel zone diffraction and any reflections.  I'm also not
sure about how much the brick wall attenuates the signal.  Looking at
the photo, I'm wondering if the 150ft is a measurement or an estimate.
Any or all of these can screw things up, but probably won't because of
the rather large fade margin.  If I don't run the numbers first, to
see if the system has a chance of working, I'll never know if I have a
huge fade margin where almost any change will not have a major impact,
or if I'm skirting the bitter edge of failure with a marginal system.

Incidentally, I just realized a made another screwup.  My fade margin
calculations were from:
   Ubiquiti Nanostation LocoM2  ->  Typical smartphone
I'm so used to symmetrical systems, where I have identical bridge
radios at both ends of the link, that I forgot to calculate the fade
margin going in the opposite direction.  The LocoM2 transmits at +23dB
while the smartphone might manage +20dB.  In this case, a loss of -3dB
of fade margin will have little effect on the rather large fade
margin, but I should have calculated it anyway.

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I don't understand it either.  The first few slides somewhat explain
how AirMax (TDMA MIMO) works:
<https://dl.ubnt.com/AirMax_ppt.pdf
I vaguely recall reading a white paper on the topic, but can't find it
right now.  Very little on the UBNT forum on the topic.

At this point, I usually dig through the available patents for clues,
but dinner beckons:
<https://patents.google.com/?assignee=ubiquiti+networks

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If he has both another LocoM2 radio, and a mixed bag of client
computers, he's screwed.  It's one or the other, not both at the same
time.  In his case, there is no 2nd LocoM2, so the obvious choice
would be to turn OFF AirMax, thus losing the speed benefits of
802.11n.  

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Now that's interesting because I never understood the polar charts.

Is this somewhat correct?
1. Vertical = Mimo #1
2. Horizontal = Mimo #2
3. Azimuth = radiation pattern when viewed from above
4. Vertical Elevation = radiation pattern when viewed from the side

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Um. OK. I guess I just proved what I said, which is that I had never really
understood those damn things! :)

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I did notice they were in negative decibels, but I had figured that that
was in dbM which is always (in our experience with our type of radios) in
negative decibels simply because of the large size of the 0dBm point of
1mW.

I didn't realize that the negative wasn't that, until you just said it.
  
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I like that you provide a practical use example!


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Makes all the sense in the world.
Especially if you're doing it for a business.  
And if you're buying the equipment.

Luckily, for me, I had the radio equipment lying around so it was OK to
just try it and then worry if it worked or not.

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I hope Rod Speed has the courtesy of letting us know, in the future, if it
worked or not, and how well it worked (if he implements anything from
this).


Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Yes I will.  

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Unlikely not to even if I say end up a cripple or something,
I would just get her son to do the physical work.  
  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:00:02 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay

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Yep, that's correct.

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Nope.  I didn't say "dBm" which is a numerical value equal to 1
milliwatt into 50 ohms.  I said "dB" which is a ratio.  0dB would be a
ratio of 1:1.  Negative dB means a less than 1 ratio, positive dB is
more than one.

Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of creativity in generating
antenna plots:
<http://dg7ybn.de/Pattern/Pattern.htm
When the outer ring is 0dB (not dBm), it's a "normalized plot".  If
the radial scale is logarithmic, it called "ARRL style".  When a
linear scale is used (mostly in antenna advertisements), it makes the
pattern look far more directional than it deserves.  

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I used to have a tech working for me that would spend company time
using some of the most sophisticated test equipment available to work
on company products.  However, after hours, he would drag out his ham
radio and CAP radios, plug in a light bulb for a dummy load, and tune
for maximum brightness.  You kinda remind me of him.

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Yeah, that would be interesting.  However, the tradition is to only
post problems, complaints, errors, rants, topic drift, and new
surprises.  When things actually work as advertised or calculated,
it's deadly silence.  This kinda takes the fun out of trying to be
helpful.  Ideally, I would like to see field measurements and range
tests to check my calcs and guestimates.  That may have happened once
or twice in the distant past, but I don't recall.  These daze, I get
"It just works" or "I did something completely different" which I find
rather un-educational and disgusting.

Oh well.  Labor Day vacation is now over and it's a back to work day.
Good luck trying to get my attention again and Bah Humbug.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
  
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I don't operate like that.

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And sometimes you learn something from what  
doesn't work the way you thought it would too.  

I have in fact done that with the medion repeater.  

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That's harder given that I don't have the hardware to do that.  

I'm currently helping quite a few with our VDSL2 rollout
and that has the big advantage that the modem synch
rate is trivially available to see how well the estimate
worked out. And with the RSP who has shown up from
Singapore with a big splash here with very low prices.  
And with the current price war with cellphone telcos
which has produced $10/month for unlimited calls and  
texts to any landline or cellphone in the country with  
varying amounts of data, around 1GB on a 4G+ service.  

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Irritating, anyway.  
  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Thanks for helping Rod Speed.

Let's hope he reports back with details.

Rod knows where to find me (since I care more than most people to
understand the immense differences between iOS and Android), and I know
where to find you (since you care a lot about radios & instrumentation, but
far less do you get into conversations about iOS differences even though
you know the hardware differences in their radios far better than I do).

:)

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
  
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Like I said, the AP would be where the camera is, but higher, at  
about 9' above the ground instead of the camera which is about
5' from the ground.  

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It wouldn't cross the fence, the fence is to the right of the  
path from the AP to the back of the neighbour's house.  

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I'm more inclined to use an omni at the AP, mainly because  
the Ubiquiti UAP-AC-M comes with that and is very easy to  
mount and I can just put it on a pole on the fence line closer  
to their house if it doesn't work well mounted on the barge  
board  of my flat roof closest to their house. Given that the
Medion wifi repeater is omni an works fine there and just
needs to be power cycled much too often to be convenient.  

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Yeah, mine too since the fence is only 5' high and the AP  
would be at 9' at least on the barge board and trivial to mount  
it higher than that given that it can be mounted on a pole.  
  
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I'm not aware of much RF reflective stuff at all inside their house.  

No mirrors at all in the main room or kitchen.  
  
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Sure, that's easy.  
  
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The UAP-AC-M comes with one.  
  
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Thanks for that, and the calculations and comments.  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Tue, 5 Sep 2017 05:08:02 +1000, "Rod Speed"


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Ok, it's not a problem except that there might be a rather large
reflection from the fence.  No way to predict the effects of that (if
any) without doing ray tracing, which is way too much complicated.

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The typical rubber ducky 2.4Ghz antenna has about 0dBi gain.  That
means you'll lose 8.5dB of fade margin.  You can afford that and it
should work.  However, if you get the bright idea of using an omni
with some gain, you're going to have a problem due to the differences
in height between your AP at 10ft elevation and the users at ground
level.  Omni antennas with gain have fairly narrow vertical beamwidths
and a tendency towards uptilt, where the major lobe of the pattern is
pointed above the horizon.  It's very likely that all the RF will end
up going over the neighbors house or into the sky, with little RF
getting into the house.  If you insist on using a removable antenna, I
suggest one of the numerous 8dBi patch or panel antennas found on
eBay.  Something like this:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/391870518374
Watch out for the sex (polarity) of the SMA connector.  The beamwidth
of an 8dBi patch is about 90 degrees, so it should work without any
loss in fade margin.  Actually, if I tear apart a Nanostation LocoM2,
it probably has a similar patch antenna inside.  Googling... Yep:
<http://thumbnails39.imagebam.com/15330/3e2cbf153291435.jpg
The lower photo is the M2, the upper is the higher gain NSM2.

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I've seen too many situations where "it works" really means "it works
as long as I don't move or change anything".  I rather prefer to run
the numbers to see if it should work and with how big a margin before
passing judgment.

Good luck.  This should be easy (famous last words).

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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