Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Hi Rod from, I think, Australia,

Actually I post to probably from a score to five score threads a day (give
or take), but the nyms used for any one thread are so random that I don't
even know what they are, given there are dozens at any one time changed
randomly (although only one nym per thread, as a hard and fast rule - so
that folks aren't confused - and every thread has all the detail needed for
the thread topic to be valuable - which doesn't require a truthful nym -
despite the very many nym-static morons who claim that to be the case).

If I respond to a thread that I recognize, I have to look at who I am at
the moment, so that I respond with a consistent nym within a thread.

The many nym-static people (like you, we can presume) don't have this
problem of remembering who they are, but you also are already pwned by the
aggregators, for all eternity. :)

The purpose, of course, of dynamic-nym anonymity is privacy from lazy
software-run robot aggregators - where I don't protect who I am in the body
of the messsage from cognizant humans - but - of course - Jolly Roger
always proclaims he's a veritable genius for figuring out the overtly
obvious - and where - at least nospam is smart enough to understand the
privacy algorithm (although he guesses people are me constantly, when I am
not those people).

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There are a lot of choices but the answer will be simpler than you think,
because your basic parameters will likely be:
a. Physical (what are your physical constraints)
b. Power (how far are you going and through what (e.g., fresnel zone))
c. Noise (how noisy is your current environment to 2.4GHz)

All three are easy to handle given the base parameters of your setup.

For example, as you are likely aware, I receive my WiFi feed from a
"neighbor" who is about 15 or 20 miles away by road and about 4 or 5 miles
as the crow flies. We each use Ubiquiti Rocket M5's nowadays, but we used
to use Ubiquiti Rocket M2s, and before that Ubiquiti PowerBeans and
NanoBeams.

We, like many, find it best to match equipment on both sides, but you don't
actually have to do that.

Obviously Ubuiquiti isn't the only brand (I've started using Mikrotic
equipment recently, for example), but for price-to-performance (which you
may be aware is that I care most about), you really can't go wrong with
Ubiquiti equipment.

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For something that short, almost anything will work. For example, I have a
spare old desktop computer in a shed which is about 100 feet from the
house, where I just plug into the desktop's ethernet port an old Mikrotik
RB411 with a Mikrotik RB52n-M 2.4GHz/5GHz daughterboard, and an old spare
antenna, both of which I was given by a neighbor who was throwing it away.

With that free setup, my desktop can connect to another "neighbor" within
miles if I wanted to set the power to the maximum legal (and where the
Mikrotik equipment can be set to any of over 200 countries in the world, if
I wanted to).  

Since I'm only going about 100 feet for that computer to my home router, I
have the power on the Mikrotic dialed way down but it works just fine as a
"wifi card" for the desktop which has only an Ethernet port and no wifi
card.

The point of the description above is that it's easy to connect a PC to an
access point that is literally miles away, if the other access point has
the same transceiver - but if you're going from a tranceiver to the home
router, the home router will limit how far - but even then, I get 100 feet
but 150 may be too far for a home router, especially if walls are an
obstacle).

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I don't know the details of your physical situation (e.g., electricity,
mounting requirements, size requirements, etc.), so I'll make basic
assumptions that others can correct if necessary.

Since you're going less than a few hundred feet, almost any "paired" set of
radios will work, so I'll recommend a cheap two-radio "set" for you and
your neighbor to each use one.  

All Ubiquiti radios will be weatherproofed, so the only thing we have to
worry about with weather is mounting against high winds (which is what we
get here in the mountains). We also weatherproof our routers, but that's
only when we have routers in the middle of nowhere, which I don't think you
have to worry about - since - I would assume - your router is inside the
house, as is the router of your neighbor.

Assuming your house outside wall, which we will call wall1, is the home
with the incoming Internet connection, I'd recommend an Ethernet cable
running from your home router, which we'll call router1, to the radio on
your outside back wall, which I'll call radio1. Likewise with your
neighbor.

Also note that you can connect any Ubiquiti or Mikrotik access point to a
computer (like I explained above) or, more commonly, to a router (which is
what I will assume below) or even (less common) directly to the Internet
(e.g., to the modem itself or to a switch connected to that modem).

I'll just assume you want to go from 1 router to the 2nd router but you can
clarify in your response.

That Internet connection I'm assuming would be:
ISP > wall1 > modem1 > router1 > wall1 > radio1 <-> radio2 < wall2 <
router2

In words, your incoming Internet connection (I assume "cable" but it really
doesn't matter how you get Internet to house1) comes in from outside, and
then usually goes to your modem and then to your router. From that router,
you can have an Ethernet cable going back out through another wall to the
radio which is mounted outside. (That radio can be mounted inside too but
then it has to go through the wall - which - for 150 feet - is possible -
but requires a stronger radio than I will be suggesting.)

From that outside radio in house1, you have a matching radio via line of
sight on the wall of house2, where that matching radio is the feed into
house2 of house2's Internet. From there it can go to a computer but I'll
assume you want to go to a router.

The power to the radio will almost certainly be POE so don't worry about
the power to the radio. Worry more about drilling holes and routing the
Ethernet cable to that radio, since that cable has to go from the router to
your radio in both homes. While you can make the router-to-radio connection
a wireless connection (as I do in my shed), you're better off wired, which
is simpler except for the physical part of running the cable.

Notice you have so many options that you have to clarify your needs, since
you can go completely wifi with no cables, but I don't recommend that. You
only want to be WiFi between the two homes, which can be miles apart as
long as they can see each other by line of sight.

Since your distance requirement is so puny, every Ubuiquit radio will work.  
You mentioned 2.4GHz, but you could just as well use 5GHz. I use 5GHz
almost exclusively now, but I'm in the Silicon Valley where, even in the
mountains, the pollution is growing so 5GHz has noise advantages. In fact,
just to be clear, what you use to connect your house to your neighbor's
house can be *any* frequency, since all the radios have to do is be matched
to each other.  

The way I'd decide quickly between 2.4GHz or 5GHz would be that I'd check
the price first (since both will work) and then I'd estimate the noise
level (where 5GHz works best if you live in a noisy environment but it
doesn't penetrate "stuff" as well) and then I'd estimate my re-use
requirement (where 2.4GHz can be re-used far more easily than 5GHz since
matching opportunities with future unknown radios will abound).

Personally, I prefer 2.4GHz since I like the re-use capability and where
the minor price difference with 5GHz isn't really the deciding factor,
although it's a plus. The 5GHz will only be needed if your 2.4GHz
environment is too noisy, so I'd just run a survey on your Android phone of
the pollution in your area.  

(A plus of the Ubuiquiti AirOS operating system on the radios is that they
all come with a spectrum analyzer, which is really neat and powerful. Here
is a GIF picture of an analysis I ran years ago.)

https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/please-help-me-interpret-noise-in-the-santa-cruz-mountains-707363-.htm

HINT: My AirView pictures are all over the net, which is interesting as I
come up in the front page in almost all DuckDuckGo searches (on almost any
topic) whenever I search for stuff I've worked on - so lots and lots of
people must be benefiting from my thousands of posted detailed pictures
over the years.

Moving to recommendations, and given we've just selected 2.4GHz, and that
we know almost any Ubiquiti radio set will work just fine, let's go for an
inexpensive set for starter consideration.

I don't use the inexpensive Ubiquiti radios (because I most often have to
connect two homes that are miles apart and when I need to connect only
hundreds of feet, I always have spare radios lying around) so I have to
look up what's best for you.

Any of the cheap radios (pico, nano, loco, etc.) should work fine but I
have to look up which is for what since I use bullets and rockets mostly.

Looking them up, here's a comparison thread that was the first hit:
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/PicoStation-Radio-Modules/pico-vs-nano-station/td-p/100063
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/NanoStation-and-Loco-Devices/Nanostation-M2-vs-Loco-M2/td-p/136952
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airOS-Software-Configuration/How-to-pair-two-PicoStation/td-p/1128363
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/PicoStation-Radio-Modules/Phase-2-Pair-of-Pico2HPs-signal-45-CCQ-1-huh/td-p/24937
etc.

--  
Note that I've added alt.internet.wireless to this post because those guys
are the right guys to add, although you should keep c.m.a since most of us
(including Jeff Liebermann who is often extremely helpful) don't often
check a.i.w - where you'll find Jeff more on sci.electronics.repair).

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Hi Rod Speed & Jeff Liebermann,

I just set up a spare Ubiquiti Rocket M2 radio & 28dBi dish antenna in
station/bridge mode, which is what Rod Speed needs if he wants to use the
radio at his neighbor's house, to pick up the weak signal from Rod's SOHO
Wi-Fi router. We tested this configuration at about 200 feet and got
perfectly acceptable signal strength.

I also set up a Ubiquiti Rocket M5 in Access Point mode, which is what Rod
Speed is most likely to do, but this post is only about how easy it is to
set up the Ubiquiti radios in station/bridge mode to *receive* signal from
a SOHO router Wi-Fi access point.

I'm using the Ubiquiti Rocket M2 in station/bridge mode right now,
connected to a desktop PC Ethernet port and then picking up the signal from
my SOHO WiFi router, which is exactly what Rod's neighbor would be using if
Rod opts to put a receiving dish and bucket router on the neighbor's
property facing Rod's home.

Here is a photo of the radios that I'm playing with for this test.
<https://s26.postimg.org/62350hckp/00aradio.jpg

Here is a photo of the radios set up in AP mode (where Rod Speed would
broadcast his signal to his neighbor) and set up in station/bridge mode
(where his neighbor would receive the weak signal from Rod Speed's SOHO
WiFi router).  
<https://s26.postimg.org/kzbm1hpt5/00bradio.jpg

Up until today, I was using a Mikrotik RB411/R52n-M radio to pick up the
weak signal from the SOHO WiFi router.
<https://s26.postimg.org/vanyu5hih/00cradio.jpg

But we just got a set of spare Rocket M2 radios to play with so that's why
I tested this out for Rod Speed.
<https://s26.postimg.org/w1gozxjvt/00dradio.jpg

For Rod Speed to test out what the neighbor would need to simply pick up
the weak signal 300 feet away from Rod Speed's SOHO Wi-Fi router, here's
all the neighbor needs to do.

1. Power up a Windows 10 PC (that's what I tested this on).
2. Connect the Ubiquiti Rocket M2 radio to the POE power "POE" port.
3. Reset the Ubiquiti radio to factory defaults (if needed).
4. Set the Windows 10 PC to a static IP address of 192.168.1.x  
   (where x is anything not used, and not 20).
5. Connect the POE power supply LAN port to the Windows PC Ethernet port.
6. Log into the Ubiquiti radio at http://192.168.1.20 using the  
   default login of "ubnt" and the password of "ubnt".
7. The radio will force you to set the country code & language and it
   will force you to accept the EULA checkbox.
8. The radio will force you to change the password, where it will take
   anything other than "ubnt" (e.g., "Ubnt" works just fine).
9. Go to the NETWORK tab and hit the "Select" button and select the  
   SSID broadcast from the SOHO Wi-Fi router & enter the type of  
   security and passphrase for that access point.
10. Hit "change" and "apply" and that's it. You're done!

The Windows 10 PC is now connected to the SOHO Wi-Fi router weak signal,
and the Windows 10 PC is therefore instantly on the Internet.

In practice, the user can test this out at home, and then move the radio
300 feet away from the SOHO Wi-Fi router where the radio should still work
pretty far out to connect to the weak SOHO router Wi-Fi signal.

Once the user establishes this works at 100 feet, 200 feet, 300 feet, etc.,
they can just put a router on the end of the radio, and they can wired or
wirelessly connect any device they want to that router (such as a barn
cam).  

Here are screenshots of the relevant screens in the setup, but again, it's
very simple because there is only one change that is required which is to
set the radio to pick up the correct SOHO router Wi-Fi access point SSID,
security type, and passphrase.

radio_001.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/54wprm12h/radio_001.jpg

radio_002.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/dbopj6r55/radio_002.jpg

radio_003.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/d1h6zucix/radio_003.jpg

radio_004.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/9j573gbmx/radio_004.jpg

radio_005.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/6dkld8t0p/radio_005.jpg

radio_006.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/aa2z6ckbt/radio_006.jpg

radio_007.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/csoo71621/radio_007.jpg

radio_008.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/brofhwp2h/radio_008.jpg

radio_009.jpg
<https://s26.postimg.org/6uauwsn3d/radio_009.jpg

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Here are the screenshots of the setup to set this Ubiquiti Rocket M5 in the
mode that Rod Speed wants.

In this setup, the radio will hang off his SOHO router by cat5 cable and
POE, and then this access point will paint the next few miles with his
Internet signal such that a neighbor only a few hundred feet away should be
able to connect to this powerful access point with small devices.
https://s26.postimg.org/kzbm1hpt5/00bradio.jpg

This happens to be a 5GHz 30 decibel rocket, but the procedure is exactly
the same no matter what Ubiquiti radio Rod Speed chooses to make his access
point that paints the neighbor's home (as per the calculations from Jeff).

ap_001 Security Certificate override at 192.168.1.20 (default)
https://s26.postimg.org/xcpkferk9/ap_001.jpg

ap_002 Log in to 192.168.1.20 port 80 as ubnt/ubnt
https://s26.postimg.org/rd1tbr6rt/ap_002.jpg

ap_003 Make sure AirMAX is not enabled
https://s26.postimg.org/dkneg4g09/ap_003.jpg

ap_004 You should be in Access Point/Bridge mode
https://s26.postimg.org/pnsq3or2h/ap_004.jpg

ap_005 Choose the SSID & security & channel & width you want for the AP
https://s26.postimg.org/hwc054mx5/ap_005.jpg

ap_006 Choose any static IP address that you want for 192.168.1.whatever
https://s26.postimg.org/4gozfoefd/ap_006.jpg

ap_007 There's nothing to change on the Advanced tab
https://s26.postimg.org/69rw3zzm1/ap_007.jpg

ap_008 There's nothing to change on the Services tab
https://s26.postimg.org/zdg408npl/ap_008.jpg

ap_009 There's nothing to change on the System tab
https://s26.postimg.org/hood8mbyh/ap_009.jpg

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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As a more easily digested top-level summary, for Rod and the others:
a. Station mode (the default)
b. Access Point mode

1. Station mode means the access point locks on to any given
SSID/passphrase, acting as a "station". For example, you can stand on the
nearest hilltop and point the radio down into the city miles below, select
the best signal strength open access point, and connect to the Internet (if
you're lucky with signal strength both ways).

2. Access Point mode means the radio acts as an access point of your
Internet to anyone (who can be miles away) who wants to connect to your
access point. You can stick the radio on a hilltop, pointing at the city
miles below, and everyone in the city can "see" your access point (if
you're lucky with signal strength both ways).

More details for setup on Ubiquiti radios such as these in my basement:
<https://s26.postimg.org/62350hckp/00aradio.jpg

1. The Ubiquiti radios, out of the box, default to "station" mode, where
you can temporarily connect them by wire or WiFi to a mobile computing
device to log in (192.168.1.20, ubnt/ubnt) and point them at any access
point (even those that are miles away) and then lock on to either the SSID
or the MAC address. That's it.  

After that one-step setup of choosing the SSID to lock onto, you can plug
*anything* you want into the radio (e.g., a router, a camera, a computer, a
mobile device, etc.) and it will be using the Internet of the SSID you're
locked on to.

2. The Ubiquiti radios can easily be set up in Access Point mode, where you
plug them into your router and then you can put this access point up to 300
feet away from the router, connected by that Ethernet cable.  

This allows you to paint any part of your property, e.g., your pool or your
barn or your front gate, etc., or even to paint an entire city miles away,
with your access point.  

In this photo below, you see that I have one powerful Rocket M2 (2.4GHz)
which is set up in "station" mode, while the other powerful Rocket M5
(5GHz) is set up in "access point" mode.
<https://s26.postimg.org/kzbm1hpt5/00bradio.jpg

Bear in mind that these radios can go for a dozen miles line of sight when
connected to a similar radio, but the distance will be far less if the
other radio is a cell phone, a router, or a less powerful access point.

The advantage, however, of these powerful Ubiquiti Rocket M2/M5 radios is
that they have 24dBi and 30dBi antennas respectively, which, if you know
how decibels work, is a huge increase in a weak noisy received signal
strength.

However, even these two relatively weak 14dBi and 18dBi antennas can still
go for miles line of sight under the right conditions on the other side.
<https://s26.postimg.org/jbamhcg6h/00eradio.jpg

None of those figures even counts the added power of at least 25 or so
decibels (dbM) of power input into the antenna, so that gives you just an
idea of how much more powerful, overall, these radios are compared to your
typical SOHO router (which would be hard pressed to garner even 20dBm of
EIRP overall).

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Update for Jeff and Rod:

Using that bullet and planar antenna above, I finally got around to
physically mounting the Ubiquiti Bullet M2HP connected to a 14dBi planar
antenna outside on a pole stuck into the leftover hole from an ancient
15-foot wide satellite dish which was removed long ago.
<https://s26.postimg.org/jbamhcg6h/00eradio.jpg

Here are some LOS Android-based received-signal-strength measurements for
Jeff Liebermann and Rod Speed where I set up *exactly* what Rod Speed wants
to accomplish.
<https://s1.postimg.org/7za88bam6n/wifi.jpg

Those measurements are roughly at about 300 feet LOS (-50dBm to -60dBm) and
at about 100 feet LOS (-35dBm to -40dBm) distance from the radio  which is
wired to the SOHO router and set up as an "access point" (which is what Rod
wants to do).


Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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To Rod Speed and anyone who wants to set up a ubiquiti radio as a receiver
far from the house.

We had a half dozen spare Ubiquiti Rocket M2 radios on hand, because we
swapped them all out for Rocket M5 radios instead (for the lower noise).
<https://s26.postimg.org/86f1es2yh/radio.jpg

So a bunch of us grabbed a few and set them up outside, a few hundred feet
from the house, pointing over the air back at the normal home SOHO routers.

At about 200 feet line of sight from the barn to the house, we got signal
strength of over minus 65 decibels, which is pretty good, and when we
tested speeds, they were asymmetric (even though all our feeds are
symmetric) at 43 Mbps down and 17 Mbps up, which is fine for what we're
doing (since we get our Internet over the air via WISP).

The key to set up the Ubiquiti radio as a receiver is "station" and
"bridge" for the two tabs, "wireless" and "network".

The configuration file has the radio set up with the following cfg file
which can be loaded into any Ubiquiti Rocket M2 (and probably other
Ubiquiti AirOS radios).

------------ cut here --------------
bridge.status=enabled
tshaper.status=disabled
gui.network.advanced.status=enabled
dhcp6c.status=disabled
resolv.nameserver.status=enabled
resolv.nameserver.2.status=disabled
resolv.nameserver.2.ip=
resolv.nameserver.1.status=disabled
resolv.nameserver.1.ip=
resolv.status=disabled
ppp.status=disabled
vlan.status=disabled
users.status=enabled
users.1.status=enabled
users.1.password=ubnt
users.1.name=ubnt
system.eirp.status=disabled
system.cfg.version=65546
sshd.status=enabled
sshd.port=22
route.1.devname=br0
route.1.status=enabled
route.1.comment=
route.1.gateway=192.168.1.1
route.1.netmask=0
route.1.ip=0.0.0.0
route.status=enabled
netmode=bridge
netconf.3.up=enabled
netconf.3.netmask=255.255.255.0
netconf.3.ip=192.168.1.20
netconf.3.hwaddr.mac=
netconf.3.hwaddr.status=disabled
netconf.3.alias.2.comment=Safety
netconf.3.alias.2.netmask=255.0.0.0
netconf.3.alias.2.ip=10.0.0.200
netconf.3.alias.2.status=enabled
netconf.3.alias.1.comment=Safety
netconf.3.alias.1.netmask=255.255.255.0
netconf.3.alias.1.ip=192.168.0.20
netconf.3.alias.1.status=enabled
netconf.3.autoip.status=enabled
netconf.3.role=mlan
netconf.3.mtu=1500
netconf.3.devname=br0
netconf.3.status=enabled
netconf.2.up=enabled
netconf.2.promisc=enabled
netconf.2.netmask=255.255.255.0
netconf.2.ip=0.0.0.0
netconf.2.allmulti=enabled
netconf.2.hwaddr.mac=
netconf.2.hwaddr.status=disabled
netconf.2.autoip.status=disabled
netconf.2.role=bridge_port
netconf.2.mtu=1500
netconf.2.devname=ath0
netconf.2.status=enabled
netconf.1.up=enabled
netconf.1.promisc=enabled
netconf.1.netmask=255.255.255.0
netconf.1.ip=0.0.0.0
netconf.1.hwaddr.mac=
netconf.1.hwaddr.status=disabled
netconf.1.autoip.status=disabled
netconf.1.role=bridge_port
netconf.1.mtu=1500
netconf.1.devname=eth0
netconf.1.status=enabled
netconf.status=enabled
httpd.status=enabled
httpd.https.status=enabled
httpd.https.port=443
ebtables.sys.vlan.status=disabled
ebtables.sys.status=enabled
ebtables.sys.eap.status=disabled
ebtables.sys.eap.1.status=enabled
ebtables.sys.eap.1.devname=ath0
ebtables.sys.arpnat.status=enabled
ebtables.sys.arpnat.1.status=enabled
ebtables.sys.arpnat.1.devname=ath0
ebtables.status=enabled
dhcpd.status=disabled
dhcpc.1.status=disabled
dhcpc.1.devname=br0
dhcpc.status=disabled
radio.status=enabled
radio.countrycode=840
radio.rate_module=atheros
radio.1.txpower=24
radio.1.subsystemid=0xe1b2
radio.1.status=enabled
radio.1.reg_obey=enabled
radio.1.pollingpri=
radio.1.pollingnoack=0
radio.1.polling=enabled
radio.1.obey=enabled
radio.1.mode=managed
radio.1.ieee_mode=11nght40
radio.1.dfs.status=enabled
radio.1.devname=ath0
radio.1.cwm.mode=1
radio.1.cwm.enable=0
radio.1.countrycode=840
radio.1.acktimeout=25
radio.1.ackdistance=600
radio.1.ack.auto=enabled
radio.1.forbiasauto=1
radio.1.rate.auto=enabled
radio.1.rate.mcs=15
radio.1.mcastrate=15
radio.1.chanbw=40
radio.1.antenna.id=6
radio.1.antenna.gain=24
radio.1.cable.loss=0
wireless.status=enabled
wireless.hideindoor.status=disabled
wireless.1.status=enabled
wireless.1.ssid=Birdfarm2Office
wireless.1.security.type=none
wireless.1.hide_ssid=disabled
wireless.1.devname=ath0
wireless.1.addmtikie=enabled
wireless.1.wds.status=disabled
wireless.1.authmode=1
wireless.1.scan_list.status=disabled
wireless.1.scan_list.channels=
wireless.1.ap=
aaa.1.status=disabled
aaa.status=disabled
wpasupplicant.device.1.status=disabled
wpasupplicant.status=disabled
bridge.1.comment=
bridge.1.fd=1
bridge.1.port.2.devname=ath0
bridge.1.port.2.status=enabled
bridge.1.port.1.devname=eth0
bridge.1.port.1.status=enabled
bridge.1.stp.status=disabled
bridge.1.devname=br0
bridge.1.status=enabled
gui.language=en_US
users.2.status=enabled
users.2.password=
users.2.name=guest
users.2.gid=100
users.2.uid=100
users.2.shell=/bin/false
resolv.host.1.status=enabled
resolv.host.1.name=Rocket M2
system.date.status=enabled
system.date.timestamp=092600002017
system.timezone=GMT+8
system.button.reset=enabled
update.check.status=enabled
system.latitude=
system.longitude=
------------ cut here --------------

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
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If that approach doesn't work out, or gets more expensive than you'd
like, you could also consider:

* have the neighbor buy a repeater / access point for wireless coverage
  on their property; then you only need a good signal between it and
  your stuff, rather than between all their devices and your stuff;

or maybe use cable for the property-to-property part:

* Places like Monoprice.com have good prices on Cat 5e, 6, 6a,
  etc. cables:
  . "direct burial" Cat 5e bulk cable ($50-$100 for 1000ft)
  . pre-made 100ft Cat 5e cables ($18 each, *2)

* Lowe's (possibly in stock) has a box of 500ft Cat 5e indoor/outdoor
  bulk cable for $68.

Then, as before, have the neighbor buy their own wireless router or
access point.  :)
 -WBE

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
Per Winston:
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Or a pair of these things: http://tinyurl.com/ybuf7nwp for about $130.

Don't be put off by all the tech talk around them: they are virtually
plug-and-play.   You plug one into your home router, set the other one
up at the remote site, aim them roughly at each other, and you
effectively have an Ethernet cable that long.

Even I was able to get them working (after vastly over-thinking the
situation and finally discovering how simple/plug-and-play they were.

My current use is between a windsurfing shop and a residence about 1.6
miles from each other: ExtremeSurfCam.DynDNS.org.  

All the cams except "Toledo Ave" are in the shop.   The server in at the
"Toledo Ave" address.....

I have also used another pair as a sort of air-gap between my house and
the garden shed where my TV antenna and digital tuners live.
--  
Pete Cresswell

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Sure, or just give them one I no longer use.

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Not keen on that approach due to risk of lightning strike damage.

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Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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You are correct that all the access points will be plenty weatherproof.
And they will be far more powerful than any router you'd typically buy.

Here is a picture of exactly what Rod wants to do, only the two dish
antenna access points you see in that photo are inside the house instead of
outside the house.
https://s26.postimg.org/hwz0upjwp/accesspoint.jpg

What you see there is an ancient Linksys WRT54G acting both as a wired
repeater and as a 2.4GHz access point for the Android devices, which are
mostly located 50 feet away behind a thick concrete wall.

The iPads and iPhone 6 wouldn't go anywhere nearly as far as did all the
Android devices I tested, so, I first hooked up the 5GHz access point
(which is the larger 30dBi dish you see in that photo) to the router, and
then the iDevices *finally* could get on the network from 50 feet away
behind thick concrete walls.

Just for fun, I also hooked up the 2.4GHz access point (which is the
smaller 18dBi dish antenna you see in the photo) for the iDevices to
connect to the Internet behind that thick wall 50 feet from the router.

Now everyone is happy in the basement.

Upstairs, on the top floor, I had a desktop computer that had no wifi card,
so, since I had a spare Mikrotik RB411/R52n-M radio, I hooked it to the
Ethernet port of the desktop, and pointed the ~15dBi antenna straight down
through two thick floors, to one of the routers inside the house.  
https://s26.postimg.org/uffmbagw9/wificard.jpg

Yeah, it's hokey, but the point is that it all works just fine.

I also have a rooftop radio which connects a few miles as the crow flies to
my WISP feed which gives me my Internet from another mountaintop across a
wide valley (at least 20 miles away by driving).  

In summary, I have exactly the setup Rod Speed wants to set up, only I'm
going just 50 feet through concrete walls inside while he wants to go 150
feet through the air outside.

I also have the opposite of what Rod Speed wants to set up, which is a
powerful radio connecting to a router access point.

And, I have the original plan that both Jeff and I were suggesting to Rod
Speed would be the best performance, which is a rooftop radio matched to
another radio miles away, which gives me my Internet feed from another
mountaintop.

In case you're wondering why the mixmash, in these Santa Cruz Mountains, we
change radios like you city boys hail taxis. I have a half dozen radios
lying about at any one time (Jeff probably has a dozen or more).  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Actually Rod, I'm already doing EXACTLY what you plan on doing.

In fact, I already have three access points in the basement for all the
iDevices and Android devices that anyone wants to use down there where the
grandkids play.

Here is a picture of all three of them.
https://s26.postimg.org/hwz0upjwp/accesspoint.jpg
1. LinkSys WRT54G router acting as a wired repeater & as a 2.4GHz AP
2. Ubuquiti NBE-M2-400 acting as a 2.4GHz access point for mobile devices
3. Ubiquiti Rocket M5 acting as a 5GHz access point for mobile devices

So that's 3 different access points you see in that photo I just took for
you (plus the T-Mobile femtotower on the left for the Cellular Signal
access point).

In addition to using those three radios each as access points, I also have
a radio on an upper floor hooked to a desktop computer Ethernet port where
the antenna is just sitting on a box, pointing straight down. It acs as a
WiFi card connecting to the router two floors down (which is the opposite
of what you're trying to do).

This radio acts as a powerful directional WiFi card for a desktop computer
where the radio it plugged into the Ethernet port of the desktop computer
(which is the opposite of what you're doing - but still a powerful radio
connected to a weak router).
https://s26.postimg.org/uffmbagw9/wificard.jpg
4. Mikrotik RB411/RB52n-M acting as a WiFi card for a desktop computer

And, of course, I have a rooftop WISP radio that connects to another one
that is three or four miles away as the crow files (20 miles by road).
5. Ubiquiti Rocket M5 acting as my WISP transceiver for Internet service

It's a mixmash, but all of us in the mountains have so many radios that we
use them like you would spare pens and pencils whenever we need to paint an
area with signal.

So, to summarize, I'm doing exactly what you're doing which is I tied two
access points to a router so as to extend my signal to the puny iDevices
which weren't picking up the signal that the Android devices were getting
from the Linksys router .

Now everyone is happy, but the distance is only about 50 feet that the
iDevices are from the radio's you see in that photo. There's a wall since
they're inside, which is thick concrete (since this is in a basement), so I
never tested how far it can go.

You have the same setup - only you need it to go 150 feet both ways.
Mine certainly goes 50 feet both ways but I didn't test it further than
that.

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point


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Yep.


I see I didn?t make it clear that I don?t want anything at the neighbours  
end,
just have a powerful enough AP on the end of my house that is closest to
theirs so that any device they have inside their house can see my AP and
connect to it like they would if they have a wifi router inside their house.

They are real technoklutzes that get me to do everything like that for
them and are quite capable of connecting to any wifi service their
devices can see, but anything else is getting too hard for them.

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Yes, and is marginally visible inside the neighbours house.
Not good enough for normal use, particularly with apple
devices which they sometimes have.

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They have nothing but devices, phones, tablets etc.

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I'd prefer to have an access point there rather than a router. The medion
wifi repeater currently under a picking bucket half way down their backyard
works fine signal strength wise, just isnt reliable enough, needs to be  
power
cycled most days. Its in a pretty rugged environment temperature wise,
typically -5C to 45C most years with the repeater only intended for inside
the house service.

A weatherproof AP on the back wall of my house would be fine
with nothing at the neighbours place at all, just their devices.

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Yeah, that?s currently what I do with the wifi repeater halfway down their
backyard under a bucket. Main downside is half thruput since it cant
receive and transmit at the same time. Better to have an ethernet cable
and POE to the AP now tho.

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Not when there is nothing but their devices at their end. I need to
be able to support whatever devices they have and some of them
are 2.4GHz only.

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One of the locals has recommended the Ubiquiti UAP-AC-M

Looks fine, but maybe something else would be cheaper.

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Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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OK. You just constrained the solution by a lot.

My assessment is below, but anything that Jeff says trumps what I say.

With that caveat, no matter which device you put on your wall, you will
have no problem whatsoever painting the neighbor's house from your house.

Once you paint their house from your newly installed outside-wall access
point, their hand-held devices will see your 2.4GHz access point that you
put on your back wall, without any problem. At their house, the signal
strength you paint them with will be huge, for example, something like
-35dBm or something huge like that.

They will have no problem "seeing" your access point.

The problem will be that you need a good antenna on your side to pick up
their weak iDevice signal and you'll need a radio with good sensitivity to
pick out that weak signal from the noise level.  

So you're gonna want to find the least noisy channel, but at 2.4GHz, you'll
be limited (as I'm sure you're aware). Let's hope it's not noisy where you
are.

Jeff knows that stuff far better than I do, where in my loose experience,
the sensitivity of any Ubiquiti receiver is pretty good, like in the 85 dBm
to 95 dBm range (yes, I know that's a 100 fold range).

In your case, with just one access point on your house wall, since it
greatly matters, you'll want to make your decision based on two things.
1. You want a really good antenna to receive their puny signal, and,  
2. You want good sensitivity in your radio (to pick it out of the noise).

Given that, I'd recommend at least the nanobeam/powerbeams that Jeff had
recommended. You could even do with the Rocket M2 that I have but that
might be overkill since the dish is about 18 inches wide as I recall.

To summarize, here's what you do.
1. You buy a radio with a good directional antenna & receiver sensitivity.
2. You plug the POE into the wall outlet near your router.
3. You hook a short Ethernet cable from your router to the POE.
4. You hook a long Ethernet cable from the POE to the outside wall.
5. You mount the radio outside at least 12 feet high (if you can).
6. We can show you later how to set up that radio as an access point.

That's it for what you do.

As I said, you'll be painting them with -35dBm so they'll see your AP
without any problems. The problems are that their devices don't have a lot
of power to get back to your radio, so your signal strength will be
asymmetric. It will be great going to them, and lousy coming back.

Obviously if you want it to be great coming back, you put a paired radio on
the neighbor's wall - but if you don't do that - it "probably" will still
work if you get a good radio with a good antenna and receiver sensitivity.

Looking up the specs on my nanobridge M2 "NBE-M2-400 US"
https://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/nanobeam/NanoBeam_DS.pdf

The Antenna gain is 13dBi to 18dBi (note that my Rocket M5 antenna is
30dBi) where every 3 dBi is a doubling of power (and a narrowing of the
beam).  

In your case, you don't care how narrow the beam is, so you can go from the
18dBi antennas to a 30dBi antennas. You can even hook a cheap Ubiquiti
Bullet M2 to a planar 20dBi antenna if you like. But most people like the
integral radio/antenna units like the nanobeam M2.  

Remember that the puny iDevices in your neighbor's house have to go the
same 150 feet to your back wall. You have to receive that puny signal over
the noise, and then amplify the heck out of it.

So you want antenna gain (from 18dBi to 30 dBi would be good).
And you want good receiver sensitivity (dunno - maybe 90dBm to 95dBm).

Here's my summary which Jeff can trump at any time.
a. If you put matching radios on both houses, it WILL work.
b. If you put only one radio on your house, it "probably" will work.

Go for the most gain in the antenna and the best sensitivity in the radio.
(Remember every 3dBi is a doubling of power received.)





Re: Ubiquity wifi access point


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That should be ok, they don?t currently have any problem with the
puny little Medion P85019 (MD 86977) wifi repeater halfway down
the backyard which doesn?t have any external antenna at all.

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Nar, its pretty decent, very little is visible on apple devices, still
only a total of maybe 6 visible on the most sensitive androids.

Nothing in the way of crude remotes that I know of.

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Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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See this picture I just snapped for you in my basement.
https://s26.postimg.org/hwz0upjwp/accesspoint.jpg

It's doing almost exactly what you want to do.

The only difference is that it's not my main router (I have three routers
spread throughout the house so this router is an old Linksys WRT54G acting
as a wired repeater).

But other than the fact it's not my main router, what I have set up in that
picture is EXACTLY what you plan on doing. Notice I have both a 2.4GHZ
access point (the smaller nanobeam) and a 5GHz access point (the larger
Rocketdish) connected to the router, where you'll only have one 2.4 GHz
access point.

You might ask WHY I plopped all those radios down there, and the reason is
very simple and has all to do with Android versus Apple devices.

There are multiple walls downstairs, and with the Linksys WRT54G router,
the Android devices never had a problem but the iOS devices (mostly iPads
and one iPhone 6) just couldn't get any decent signal back to the router.

So I popped in those two dishes, and from then on, the iDevices were plenty
happy. I never bothered installing them because they're really not an
inside solution, so I just propped them up pointing in the same direction
so the people in the far room (separated by a thick concrete wall) would
have not only the Android devices working (which were fine with the Linksys
WRT54G router 2.4GHz access point), but also those crappy iDevices which
now are plenty happy with an 18dBi and 30dBi antenna beaming signal at them
and receiving their puny signal.

It's a mixmash. But it's EXACTLY what you want to do.

The only difference is I'm going 50 feet through thick concrete walls to
the Android and iDevices, and you're going 150 feet through the outside air
to those Android and iDevices.  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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10x range

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point

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Jeorg,  
I don't know routers all that well, but "consumer" routers won't generally
do a good job at 150 feet which is what Rod said is the distance.

I go about 100 feet, through walls, with a powerful radio to connect to my
router, but that's pushing it, so, Rod Speed's 150 feet would be, IMHO, too
far for one end to be a router.

I suggest to Rod that he "pair" a matched set of radios, one on his wall
and the other on the wall of his neighbor. Each radio is fed by an Ethernet
cable which supplies the 12 to 24 volts at about 1 to 1.5 amp POE which
comes with each radio.

So the only connection to each radio is an ethernet cable which is
presumably connected to a router on each end.

In words, the Internet would come into Rod Speed's house, and then it would
go to his router, and from his router, he would run a short ethernet cable
to the POE which is next to the router most likely, and then from that POE
he would have a far longer ethernet cable (up to 300 feet) to the Ubiquiti
radio on his outside wall pointing toward his neighbor at at least 6 feet
off the ground (5GHz) or 12 feet off the ground (2.4GHz) to keep the first
fresnel zone clear.  

Note that the frequency and protocol between these two matched radios
doesn't matter - so Rod can choose any legal frequency he wants. For
example, my Mikrotik RB411/R52n-M can be set to work on any frequency,
whether 5Ghz or 2.4GHz and to work in any of 200 countries.

On his neighbor's wall, there's a matched radio which itself has a long
ethernet cable that goes to his neighbor's POE (which comes with each
radio) and which then has a shorter ethernet cable that goes to the
friend's home router.  

Voila! Instant Internet transmitted from one house to the other.  
The distance of 150 feet is so puny that it shouldn't be a problem for Rod
Speed no matter what Ubiquiti radio set he chooses.  

I think Jeff and I recommend the Nanobeams/Powerbeams (I think they're the
same thing, but with marketing changing the name from one to the other at a
point in time).  

I have a Nanobeam NBE-M2-400-US (which shows up as a Powerbeam M2-400 when
I log into it, which is one reason I think they're one and the same (the
other reason is that other people say that):
https://s26.postimg.org/6k57cbfi1/power_beam.jpg

It's capable of connecting for 3 or 4 miles since that's what it originally
was for before I replaced it with a Rocket M2 and then a Rocket M5 which is
what I'm currently using (we have radios all over the place at all these
houses in the mountains because it's like motorcycles - you keep getting
more and more powerful ones each year where in the beginning you start with
a bullet M2HP with a planar antenna, because that's effective, adn then you
move to a dish antenna nanobeam/powerbeam, and then you want more power so
you go to a rocket m2 but then you want noise immunity so you move up to a
rocket M5, etc.  

Back to your original point, I don't know ANYONE who would solve a 150 foot
connection with a "router" alone, no mater how big you cantenna. The power
of a home router is utterly puny compared to the EIRP of a transceiver such
as the Ubiquiti radios Jeff and I are suggesting to Rod Speed.

Jeff also mentioned Rod Speed could use a $67 USD Nanostation Loco M5 which
has a much smaller and nicer form factor, since 150 feet is so puny as to
not require a dish and it still has what Amazon "says" is a 15km+ range:
https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-0000070700985-NanoStation-loco/dp/B004EHSV4W
But Ubiquiti says it's only 10Km+ range:
https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostationm/

But notice that the 150 feet Rod Speed needs is child's play for any radio
from Ubiquiti so the distance isn't the issue.

One advantage of the nanostation loco M5 is that it has a nice
cigarette-pack-sized form factor, which allows for a window mount, so Rod
Speed could mount them INSIDE the two homes although all Ubiquiti radios
are weatherproofed as they're almost always mounted outside. (Some windows
are almost impervious to radio waves, like mine on top of a mountain facing
the sun - but Rod's may be normal glass for all we know.)

ROD:  
I think Jeff and I are both recommending the nanobeam/powerbeam (I think
they're the same thing) but if you want a small form factor, take a look at
the loco M5 that Jeff also uses (because he has lots of them).

I don't remember if that $67 is for two loco M5's or just one - I think
itg's a set but I'm not sure, so that would make it half the price of the
nanobeams/powerbeams, because we recommend a matched set (too much bad
experience with non-matched sets).  

Hope this helps Rod Speed.  

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Thu, 31 Aug 2017 20:15:08 +0000 (UTC), Roy Tremblay

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Ugh.  I dived into the depths of comp.mobile.android and found the
original posting:

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Rod:
You need to make some decisions before blundering forward.  I'll make
the big decision for you... you're going to use 5GHz, not 2.4GHz. See,
that was easy.

1.  Do you want your neighbor to see every machine and device on your
LAN?  That's what will happen if you setup a "wireless bridge".  It's
essentially a wireless ethernet extension cord.  Everything that a
CAT5 cable can do, you can also do with a wireless bridge.  For larger
systems and if you want monitor traffic by device, I would worry about
it being a "transparent bridge" which sees each device across the
bridge as a different MAC address.  Most commercial wireless bridges
are already transparent, while the do it thyself variety, such as
DD-WRT are not.  You don't have to worry about your neighbor sniffing
your traffic with a bridge, but he does have to trust you not to sniff
his traffic.

There are some tricky ways to isolate the traffic.  The easiest is to
bet your ISP for more than one routable IP address.  You connect a
modem and two wired routers (one per IP address).  Unless someone taps
the modem, traffic for each IP address is separate.

2.  Are you concerned with traffic management?  With a simple wireless
bridge, you neighbor could conceivably suck all the available
bandwidth without even realizing that there's a problem.  If your
unspecified model router has some traffic management or load balancing
features, you might want to use them.

3.  How is the line of sight?  Any obstructions within the Fresnel
Zone?  Let's do the math:
<http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-fresnel-clearance-zone
Distance is 150ft/5280ft = 0.284 miles
Frequency = 5.4GHz
1 Fresnel Zone = 8.3ft at mid path (75ft).  So, are there any
obstructions within 6 ft of the direct line of sight?  That includes
the ground, pavement, dirt, etc if either antenna is mounted at less
than 6ft height?  (Note that if you're thinking of using 2.4GHz, which
I do NOT recommend, you'll need 12.4ft of clearance).

4.  What the slowest data throughput that you're willing to tolerate?
That will determine the SOM (system operating margin) or fade margin,
which in turn determines the reliability (hrs of downtime per year).
<http://wireless.navas.us/index.php?title=Wi-Fi#Link_Calculations

I'm late.  More after you fill in the blanks.  


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Ubiquity wifi access point


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I've already done that but now see that I didn't say what I wanted clearly
enough. Just a weatherproof AP on the back wall of my house that the
neighbour's various devices can see reliably from inside their house.

Their house isnt a very big house and they can see the wifi repeater
that's under a bucket halfway down their backyard fine. Its just not
reliable enough and needs to power cycled on far to many days
which isnt surprising given its only meant to be used inside and
the temperature under that bucket varys much more than its
designed to be able to handle.

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Not practical because some of their devices are only 2.4GHz.

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I'd prefer not, but it isnt essential that they can't, its easy enough to  
prevent
access on those devices of mine although better if I don't have to.

They only need to be able to see my internet service.

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Mine actually uses CGNAT. I can get a fixed IP but that
costs more and I'd rather not have one anyway. I don't
bother with vpn for torrents because of the CGNAT.

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Nope. It would be nice to be able to monitor what
they are doing just to see when things stop working
for them, but I've got an unlimited net service.

Currently I can see if things are working for them
because one of the house inhabitants listens to just
on internet radio station 24/7365.25 and I can see
that that still working from the router leds.

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Mine is a 100/40 service so that's not a problem either.

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Pretty decent, just some branches on some trees in their backyard.

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Almost anything that will still deliver internet radio. Some browsing
in addition to that by they did fine over my previous 8/1 adsl2+
service using the wifi repeater that halves the thruput.

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Re: Ubiquity wifi access point
On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:54:10 +1000, "Rod Speed"

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Ok, we'll start over.  That's going to be difficult at about 150ft.
The problem is not the choice of AP (access point) but rather the
choice of antenna.  You'll need some antenna gain to deal with the
distances involved and with penetrating the unspecified construction
of their house.  It can probably be made to work under ideal
conditions (line of sight, no obstructions along the path, no walls to
go through, no interference for other wifi system, etc), but I would
have my doubts that it will work if any of the aforementioned are
lacking.  

I can do the calculations if you want, but I need to know a few
things.

1.  What is the horizontal beam width required?  That the angle from
your added AP that covers all of your neighbors house.  For example,
if the house is 50ft wide and at 150 ft range, the angle would be
about:
  2 * arc tan(25/150) = 19 degrees.
Therefore, any directional antenna you put on your AP must have a
horizontal beam width greater than 19 degrees (plus a few degrees to
deal with aiming errors).  

2.  I tend to favor sector antennas that have a wide horizontal beam
width (typically 90 to 150 degrees) but very little vertical beam
width (usually less than 10 degrees).  This provides the maximum gain
as any vertical radiation will be wasted going into the ground or into
the sky.  Something like this:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-7/index.html
However, with only 19 degrees of beam width required, a cheaper and
smaller panel or patch antenna will probably do as well.  This looks
usable:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/281468449005
15dBi gain, 30 degree beam width, $67 delivered from Canada.  There
are plenty of similar patch or panel antennas with similar gain and
beam width available.  I can be more specific when you supply the
radiation angle.

3.  That type of construction is the neighbors house?  If there's
window glass, is it Low-E coated?  Any metal in the outside walls,
such as chicken wire or aluminum foil backed insulation?  All these
will have a big effect on the signal level and is the major reason why
I don't think this plan will be reliable.

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4.  Any particular model wireless router/AP?  If it requires a power
cycle to recover from a signal loss (or from interference), it's not a
good router.  This is one reason why I donated my pile of WRT54G
routers.  Any of the Ubiquity that are made for outdoor use should be
better and not have this problem.  Also, make sure it's really a
temperature problem and not a condensation problem.  If it craps out
every morning when the sun comes up, it might be condensation.

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No problem as 2.4GHz goes through walls better than 5GHz.  However, it
does not go through holes and perforated obstructions.  It also
requires more Fennel Zone clearance.  There are also dual band AP's
which work quite nicely.  The problem here is that it's difficult to
provide a dual band antenna with anything more than a few dB of gain.

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I'll take that as a "No, I don't want the neighbors all over my LAN".
The sloppy way is to setup two difference IP address blocks, one for
you and one for the neighbor.  Then use the subnet mask to separate
the traffic.  This offers no security but is good enough to prevent
accidents.  Another is to setup a VLAN (virtual LAN) for the neighbor,
which sends everything on that VLAN to the Internet.  Once I know what
type of equipment you'll be using, I can provide more detail.

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That probably does a 1:1 match with a non-routable IP used by your
USP, and the few available IPv4 addresses.  I don't have any
experience with this beyond reading the literature.  I think you can
get a 2nd routable IP but that will need to come from the ISP, which
will no doubt charge for it.  Under the circumstances, I don't believe
the expense to be justifiable.

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I suggest you reconsider.  If your neighbor gets infect with a spambot
that spews spam all over the internet, it's YOUR responsibility as the
system owner.  How your ISP will react to such situations varies.  One
of mine just pulls the plug until I fix the problem.  Monitoring the
traffic is also a good way of determining what is normal traffic, so
that if anything changes, you have a reference point.  If traffic
suddenly increases, it could be a spam bot, a Windoze update, or a
visit by the neighbors grandchildren.

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Is "some branches" one, two, three, or twenty?  Are they little
branches or big branches?  Do these branches support leaves or
needles?  Basically, anything that is full of water will block the
signal.  If you're using vertical polarization, and have horizontal
branches, it will block more signal than if the signal and branches
were the same "polarization".

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If you ever watch internet radio (e.g. Pandora), it's NOT a continuous
slow audio stream.  It's a short burst of data before a song ends,
that sends the entire next 5-10 minutes of music as fast as possible.
The media player then plays the 5-10 minute tune at audio speeds with
no downloading except at the end, when it loads the next tune.  If you
slow down the traffic so that it take more than 1/2 the length of an
average tune to do the download, it will screw up badly because the
next tune will not have sufficient time to download.

50 minutes.  Enough for now...

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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