Re: Scanning for WiFI like inSSIDer on iOS & Macbook Pro & iMac

Fundamentally, *that* is the question. Specifically, *what* numerous wifi scanner app would people use in an all-apple household.

I don't have an Apple computer so mostly I'm asking about the Apple computer apps.

If they had any other platform (Windows, Linux, or Android), I'd be all over it - but I know less about Macs than anyone here.

So that's why I ask. Just saying there are "numerous" apps tells me nothing useful.

Which of those numerous wifi scanning apps do you suggest for their laptop? Would you suggest the Mac app that I found for their Macbook Pros?

Or is there something better for the Mac?

I'm not so sure *where* the problem lies yet.

Comcast tested the system and while Comcast said they can't tell what speed they're getting, they can see "all green lights" from their side.

Apparently the throttling to 25/5Mbps happens with a file that they say is on the Docsys modem that seems to be working properly.

So, *at* the modem, they're getting what they pay for; but with the iMac wired to the Linksys WRT54G, they're not getting half that (it fluctuates from 12 down and 1 up to a variety of numbers in between, they tell me).

So, they are buying a Netgear Nighthawk $200 ac1900 router from Best Buys as we speak, but I don't see how the *wired* part of the router can be the problem since the wired speeds are slower at the router (by a lot!) than they are at the modem.

I don't disagree. They're in a state that has fewer voters than my county probably.

They're in the store as we speak, buying the AC 1900 router but I don't see how the router is the problem, per se, anyway - at least not for the

*wired* portion of the network.

Sure, the WRT54G is ancient - but I just looked up the specs and it's

10/100 at the four ports. I forget what 10/100 means (why not just 100?) but I think it means that it can do 10Mbps wired or it can do 100Mbps wired, and since the input from the modem is 29 Mbps, that's less than a 100.

Right?

do a search on the app store or use google.

you don't need an apple computer to find such an app.

you know less about a *lot* of stuff than anyone here.

it tells you to search.

you do know how to search, do you not?

i don't suggest any, since the problem is almost certainly the linksys wrt54g.

i am.

they were looking at the traffic light outside their office.

then it's the linksys.

the linksys can't handle broadband speeds.

it was a cool router in its day, but not anymore.

the number of voters isn't the issue.

the ports aren't the issue, it's how much throughput it can manage over wifi or wan-lan if it's used as a router.

the wrt54g hails from an era when 1.5mbit was 'fast'. today, 25-50 is common and gigabit is 'fast'.

Yes.

Yes, but it can't necessarily deliver a full 29Mbps over the 4 ports simultaneously.

Nevermind.

As you can tell from the OP, I already ran a search.

In another thread, we discuss why simply spitting out search results is not only nearly worthless, but often it's less useful than worthless.

As we've said, the cost in freeware is in *TESTING* each one and finding the one that actually works well. Since Jolly Roger should know, I have already suggested the app *he* suggested for these people to use on their Macs.

I have no way of testing them, unless I try it on the library computer but I suspect the library won't let me install it.

As you can tell from the OP, I already ran a search.

In another thread, we discuss why simply spitting out search results is not only nearly worthless, but often it's less useful than worthless.

For example, I could have spit out this review:

7 free Wi-Fi stumbling and surveying tools for Windows and Mac

But that review includes a Mac app that doesn't seem to exist, and, it doesn't include the Mac app that Jolly Roger kindly suggested.

In the end, only a user who has *used the apps* would know which ones are good or bad, as reviews almost invariably are wrong in that they test the wrong things or they are fronts for software sales.

I know absolutely nothing about Mac computers, so, that's why I asked. The article I referenced above suggests 5 Windows and 2 Mac tools: a. Acrylic WiFi (Windows) b. AirGrab WiFi Radar (Mac OS X) c. Cain & Abel (Windows)\ d. Homedale (Windows) e. LizardSystems Wi-Fi Scanner (Windows) f. WirelessNetView (Windows) g. Wireless Diagnostics (Mac OS X Lion and later)

But, only one of the Mac tools seems to actually exist. And it's not the tool that Jolly Roger kindly suggested, so, it's probably not as good as the one that Jolly Roger suggested.

- NetSpot: WiFi survey & wireless scanner, By Etwok LLC

So it seems the two Mac WiFi scanning freeware tools to test are:

1. formatting link
2. (The airgrab site seems to be for sale)
3. formatting link

As you can tell from the OP, I already ran a search.

In another thread, we discuss why simply spitting out search results is not only nearly worthless, but often it's less useful than worthless.

If you don't know the answer, you don't have to answer the question.

Luckily, Jolly Roger kindly supplied an answer of value which I provided to the all-Apple household to test out when they get home from work.

It might be, but, *wired* the signal *should* be the same (essentially) at the modem as it is at the router. That it's apparently *half* at the router is odd, since this is a wired connection where the router spec is 10/100 so

25Mbps should be within the 100 Mbps spec.

The good news is that they called me and told me they picked up the Netgear ac1900 for about $200 at Best Buys, so tonight they will set it up and that will tell them whether it was the linksys router or not.

Heh heh ... they said it was 'all green' on their side. The iMac hooked to the modem *did* show above 25/5 Mbps so, it doesn't seem to be Comcast's problem (aka Xfinity).

We'll find out tonight when they hook up the new router.

I agree with you that the WRT54G was "the" router to get in the olden days. I don't know what you mean by "broadband" speeds, in that they get 25/5 from Comcast and the router spec, wired, is 10/100 which is well within the

25 Mbps speed.

Likewise, the wifi on the Linksys WRT54G is apparengly 54Mbps, which is also well within their input speeds of 25/5 Mbps.

So, the router *should* handle the speeds (AFAIK). What the router can't do is give them an empty frequency for their WiFi.

That's why I'm asking about WiFi scanners. They need to be on an unused frequency.

That should be less of a problem if they're on 5GHz than on 2.4 GHz. Btw, do all the iMacs and Macbook Pros have 5GHz?

Well, what I meant is that Comcast is a monopoly that is regulated by the voters, who have a say in what price they charge.

I don't disagree with most of your words, but maybe I don't understand what it means that the WRT54G is 54Mbps wireless and 10/100 wired?

To me, 54Mbps wireless is double what their modem is giving them, so, unless something else is interfering with their wifi signal, 54Mbps should be well within the capabilities of the router.

Likewise, 10/100 means it can handle 100 Mbps (AFAIK - I'm not sure why the

10 is there since the 100 overrules it). If that's correct, then wired, the router can handle 100Mbps and they're only getting 25 Mpbs at best.

So, looking at specs, I don't see that the Linksys can't handle the throughput.

However, I do see that the Linksys WRT54G is using "g" and not "n" or "ac" so *that* will limit their speeds, and, in addition, it's stuck on 11 channels, so, if there is interference on their channel, that will also slow them down.

But their *wired* speeds are half at the router than at the modem, so, something funny is going on - so they need tools to debug that work on iOS or on Mac.

That's all I'm asking for.

Bad move IMO, considering they could have gotten an Apple Airport Extreme which is *far* easier to configure, much more secure due to its design, updated for much longer during the life of the product, for the same price.

The simple explanation is the old, crusty router isn't able to keep up.

if they're getting 25/5 at the comcast modem, then the problem is not comcast.

the bottleneck is within the house, namely the linksys.

it's really very simple.

unless there's more to the story that you haven't disclosed.

that's the port speed, not the router throughput.

802.11g is 54mbps, but actual throughput is roughly half, about 25 mbit or so, and that's *maximum*. in the real world, it will be less.

it doesn't an empty one, it only needs one that doesn't have much interference.

if it's about 8 years old or less it should.

option-click the wifi icon in the menubar for lots of geek info.

the voters have no say whatsoever what comcast does.

comcast does what it does because it can. they're almost always the only game in town, so they can charge pretty much whatever they want and you have to suck it up.

one is wireless and the other is wired. duh.

the ports are 100bt, but that doesn't mean the electronics inside support those speeds.

I firmly agree. In an Apple environment it is really the best choice. Rock solid and simple to configure. Mine has been sitting there for years just working away. I might have reset it a couple times over the years, probably when it got an update.

Good guess!

You're confusing the specs of the port with what thruput the router can manage.

Not necessarily. Plenty of well designed routers share frequencys fine.

Again, you are confusing the basic wifi spec with what the router can deliver thruput wise. Plenty can't manage anything like the basic wifi spec, particularly with the lower priced routers.

Its there because some devices can only do 10 and that router is happy to talk to those and works out what it is automatically.

Again, you are confusing the basic wifi spec with what the router can deliver thruput wise. Plenty can't manage anything like the basic wifi spec, particularly with the lower priced routers.

That?s where you are going wrong with thruput.

Not necessarily. If the other users of a particular channel are well away physically it will have no effect at all.

Not necessarily, it can be just a low performing router.

Nope.

I will tell them when I call when they get back home from work.

Looking up the AirMac Extreme, it's even *less* money than what they just paid for their ac 19000 router, but the Apple AirMac Extreme web page is frustratingly high on marketing BS and extremely low on real details.\

I *expect* the main page to be filled with Marketing bs...

But, when you click for "more information", you're actually supposed to get "more information", not more of the same lack of information.

I mean, um, "With 802.11ac technology and a powerful beamforming antenna array, AirPort Extreme gives you up to 3x faster Wi-Fi and a stronger, clearer signal".

Yeah. Right. They have entire pages of nothingness there. Total BS for a technical "description" if you ask me.

Sure, it's marketing, but it's worthless to make a real comparison decision.

The entire web site related to the airport extreme is filled with this marketing "nothingness", for page, after page, after page:

Digging deeper for a fact, any fact, any real fact that can be used to

*compare* the price:performance with the newly bought router, I'll have to look on a non-Apple-Marketing-written site just to get *any* real information about the thing... etc.

I agree.

I don't know if there is more to the story, as all I know is that they called me asking how to figure out why they're getting horrid cellular signal, even with the AT&T "M port" (or whatever they called it), and whether they're on cellular or WiFi, and that Vonage call quality sucked.

Interestingly, they didn't mention that their Internet was slow.

So I conference called them to Comcast support and that's how we found out that they 're paying for 25/5 Mbps and that, at their router, they were getting half that.

The iMac wasn't charged up and they couldn't find any RJ45 ports on the Macbook pro. I was incredulous, and I told them I hadn't seen a laptop in decades that didn't have an RJ45 port but they confirmed it wasn't there.

So they started charging up the iMac and after the initial call to Comcast, they hooked the iMac to the modem and that's when they saw good speeds for the first time.

Comcast said that it as "all green lights" from their side anyway, so that's when I told them we'd have to start debugging.

once again, an imac is a *desktop* computer that plugs into the wall. there is nothing to charge.

then it's very recent and likely has 802.11ac.

a lot of laptops don't because wireless is far more convenient and just as fast (or even faster) in real world use.

laptops are *mobile* and people don't want to be tethered, so having an ethernet port frequently goes unused.

Sure you will...

I'll save you some time. Nobody here is interested in yet another of your misguided and trollish spec comparisons since those of us who aren't here purely to troll realize spec comparisons aren't the only or best method of determining actual value.

For someone who constantly claims he is smarter than everyone else in the Apple news groups, you sure seem to have a hard time with basic things like clicking the Tech Specs link on that very page:

and even getting the product name correct:

Must be his pathetic aversion to the "evil M.A.R.K.E.T.I.N.G names"...

You're definitely correct that I'm confused. And you're almost certainly correct that I'm confusing what you call the "specs of the port" with the throughput of the router.

I guess it doesn't matter though, since the WRT54G is history. He's already replaced the linksys with the Netgear ac 1900 router.

On a vonage phone call, things seemed better - but - I'm on Ooma over a WISP connection, so he really needs to test with a landline friend.

I told him to first get the Internet working. Then we will worry about the Vonage QOS. And lastly we'd worry about the AT&T Microcell (which they call an mcell).

I had him look with the router what devices are on his new network and he found two devices on the 2.5GHz network, one of which he recognized but the other he didn't recognize.

He's gonna use Fing on the mobile device to figure out what that other device is, over time.

Well, I agree with you that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to router specs.

I thought the 54Mbps meant that's what it can handle but if that's too simplistic, then the simpler answer is that he no longer has the Linksys WRT54G in service. He now has the Netgear ac 1900 so *that* should be fast enough for Comcast 25/5 Mbps service. :)

I guess that makes sense that 10/100 means that devices stuck on the 10 "protocol" work fine while others on the 100 "Protocol" work fine too.

I was only pointing out that 100 is far greater than 25Mbps but again, I never once said I understood those specs.

Suffice to say that the new router is in place, where I doubt a new ac 1900 router is slowing him down when his Internet feed from Comcast is only

25/5. Thanks for the advice.

At this point, he has the necessary tools on the iOS device to debug: a. AirPort Utility (to check for interference) b. Fing (to check for intruders)

And if he needs it, he can install the necessary tools on the Macs: a. NetSpot (to check for interference) b. Wireless Diagnostics (to check for interference)

Here are the related URLs:

And to check for intruders on either platform:

- Fing

Ah, that's more like it!

Nice. That's what I was looking for. BTW, I didn't suggest that router, someone else did.

So for you to claim that I *planned* a trollish behavior regarding that router gives me far more credit for being clever than I can imagine you'd give me.

I'm smart ... but I'm not *that* smart. In this case, I think we're pretty much done with the original question.

The original question was how to scan for WiFi on Apple equipment. The answer is fine with me, which is:

iOS:

- Airport Utility

- Fing

Mac:

- NetSpot: WiFi survey & wireless scanner, By Etwok LLC

- Wireless Diagnostics

And to check for intruders on either platform:

- Fing

Then he doesn't know what his machine is called. I asked him again and he said iMac again so I'm not gonna press the issue. He knows if it has a battery or not.

Good.

He has the new router up and running, and he found an "android-#####" device on his network, so, he *already* has an intruder (within hours!) because he himself has no Android devices (and neither does his wife), so, that's interesting.

I told him to use "Fing" to keep track of intruders.

OK. Fair enough. It's just that he needed a wire to test the speeds.

Anyway, he still had oddities, as his download is now 29Mbps at both the modem and the router, but his upload is 6Mbps at the modem but only 0.4Mbps at the router using wireless (which is odd, indeed).

So his wired speeds are what one would expect. And his wireless download is what one would expect. But something is wrong with his wireless upload.

We did mess with Vonage QOS settings - but that shouldn't be a big factor.

Fair enough. Anyway, his router is all set up.

Since I have Netgear equipment, I was able to walk him through most of the setup. WPA2/PSK, easily remembered non-dictionary passphrase (name of consecutive presidents), no guest setup, _nomap on the SSID, etc.

Wired is fine now at both the modem and router. Wireless down is fine at both the modem and router. But wireless up is dismal (at 0.4Mbps) at the router.

didn't he set a passphrase? if he left it wide open, then don't be surprised someone joined it.

no need.

set a good passphrase and it's for all intents impossible to crack it.

yep.