New 2wire at&t DSL install

Try:

instead. See Appendix A "To activate your Internet account" in the

2701 Installation docs. If you don't have Install docs, download them from:

Also the User Guide at:

That worked the first time, but it hung somewhere further in the process, and I never saw the base page again. I could see the URL in the previous addresses dropdown, but it didn't work. I don't know if it's a one-time use, or if mine is bad.

I was able to get to the more advanced setup, noted on the dslreports pages,

but not the basic one. I can't recall now if I got there by IP address or name. The name shows in "history" for yesterday.

After tech support resetting the modem remotely, I was able to get to the basic setup pages again, so I think that's a one time shot, at least on my modem. Now that it is working, I'll visit again today, to see if that basic setup is still available. I went to the basic setup pages by IP address each time yesterday. Tech support never even mentioned the name when the initial redirection didn't work, which they insisted was due to cookies on my machine.

I turned off the 2701 Wifi, cabled in a Linksys BEFW11S4 as a WAP, and I have stable performance at much greater range. I talked to another guy with a 2701, and he is happy with the WiFi performance through a couple of interior walls at the default WiFi settings, and I am not happy at max power, so I think I'll give tech support another call today.

snipped-for-privacy@43.usenet.us.com hath wroth:

It's NOT one-time. I've used the URL to get to the setup page many times on more than one 2wire router after initial installation. However, I usually can't remember the URL so I just go directly to the gateway IP address as:

Don't forget the "/" at the end. It often fails without it.

Are you perhaps changing the IP address of the router in the setup? That can cause weird problems is you use the name instead of the IP address. The DNS cache might have the old IP address and not recognize the change. The fix is to exit the browser, run: ipconfig /flushdns and try again. I forgot the Linux equivalent incantation.

Incidentally, there's nothing coming from the internet that's causing a DNS lookup failure. I just tried to ping gateway.2wire.net and got "unknown host".

Yep. IP address always works for me. Also, the built in web server in the 2wire seems to prefer seeing a / at the end of the URL.

Have you requested a new firmware load from support? They can initiate that remotely.

Did you try cranking up the wireless power setting in the setup?

One problem might be coincidence, but you have at least two (setup weirdness and lousy RF wireless range). The long yahoo ping might a sign of additional problems. Try pinging the ISP gateway address instead.

Methinks there's sufficient justification to request an exchange. Is there a warranty shipping label and instructions in the box?

That brings up the status page, where I can do "stuff", but it's not the guided tour initial setup.

From there, the "setup wizard" in the lower right corner goes to the advanced setup noted on the dslreports page. The other setup options are on other tabs, just the "ez startup" is missing.

Nope. I generally leave stuff at default until it's all working, and then I start adjusting.

It was something in the router that was bad, and probably still is bad ;-( The router returns its own DNS entries, and the initial setup is probably keyed by whether the password exists or not.

The IP address works, and I suspect that is why tech support doesn't bother describing the name.

I'd rather have a new router.

I went from 4 to 10, which makes it barely tolerable for a range of 15 feet.

Now that I have a Linksys WiFi connection, I haven't noticed any problems with the yahoo pings. Maybe the router was working too hard on WiFi to handle wired traffic. The 2wire Wireless is disabled.

Now I am using the DSL, and the box is in another location. I need a bigger car.

Sounds so much like using Windows to find a lose AC power cord. Everything that follows was way to complex, utter confusing, involves too much equipment and variables, and does not even break the problem down into parts.

Well, most support techs do not even understand simplest concepts that even a Ham radio Novice would understand. For example, a very first number required was signal strength observed by each computer and in various locations. That dB number is routine with Dell Computers (using Dell's WiFi software also called WLAN Card Utility). That software should be standard from every computer manufacturer or from the WiFi card manufacturer. Such information is not available from Windows utilities AND is essential for breaking a problem down into parts - then solving each part. Trying to solve such problems using only Windows is a nightmare.

Instead the tech simply shotgunned - i.e. increase signal strength from 4 to 10. What the untrained do when they have not a clue. Did this because he had neither a clue nor any training how to solve problems using a diagnostic mental process. He could only shotgun.

Without those signal numbers (signal strength or signal to noise ratio), then everything performed may have even complicated the problem. And then it gets more difficult. Many WiFi computer peripheral suppliers cannot even bother to provide dB numbers since the consumer is 'too dumb to understand numbers'. At least that is their rationalization. Therefore you we all but told to 'piss in the wind'.

Why would he instruct you to increase signal power from 4 to 10? Because he first had numbers that said signal power was a problem? No. Instead he just shotgunned - kept blindly changing things hoping to make things work without even knowing what those changes actually did.

But Jeff likes lots of details ;-)

And then you wander off in a different complex direction of what you would like to see, but isn't available. That's not very helpful, either.

'cause it's there. A knob he could twiddle.

I think that's true. The "confusing" in the first posting was the trail that he was carving, that I was following. Set this, that, and the other thing on my computer to defaults, clearing cookies, configurations, turning off firewalls, and other "third party apps", in the hope that one of them might cure his broken hardware.

Claiming that ping times of 900mSec were because of something on my computer is ludicrous. It might have happened once upon a time, on someone's computer. No ping? Maybe. Slow ping? I'm thinking not.

Today, I took the 2wire 2701 router home. Using an add-on client that expresses signal strength in percentages, I see that my Netgear (channel

11) and the 2wire (channel 1) are both at "100%" with the routers about 10 feet apart, 5 feet from the laptop. As I walk away, the Netgear stays at "100%" while the 2wire drops to 80 within 10-15 feet, 60 at 30 feet, and then disappears, the Netgear still at 100%.

snipped-for-privacy@43.usenet.us.com hath wroth:

Sorry. I misunderstood. Go to the status page with Mozilla Firefox and look under: Tools -> Page Info -> Links It may be there but will hidden.

I'll be at a customers with a 2wire 2701HG on Friday or Monday and will have some time to tinker.

Well, you might be half right. Many such "wizard" setups are setup to start when the router is set to defaults and has never been configured or connected to the internet. Netgear routers are a good example of this. The initial URL will give you the wizard. However, only by RTFM or knowing the secret URL incantation, can one bypass the wizard and go directly to the main status page. On later versions, it knows that you've already setup the router and bypasses the wizard. Howver, the wizard is available on the menu bar. I would think that this would be the case with 2wire.

Neato.... I just found another router emulator. So far they have some Dlink, WRT54g, and 2wires:

Egads, you're right. It says "Wizards" on the right, but it takes you to advanced settings. Kinda sounds like an HTML bug. If I hit "Site Map" (uppper right), it lists "See all setup wizards" but also goes to the advanced settings.

Ah, foundit. Hit: "site map" -> "Systems Setup Wizard" That brings you to the key code. The screen says "Setup Wizard". The emulator screws up past this point, but I think that will do the wizard thing. Try this URL and see if takes you directly there:

Y'er no fun. I tweak everything to see what it will do. Then, I reset to defaults and do it the right way. It's all part of Learn By Destroying(tm) or if you haven't broken it, you don't really understand it.

Yep. If not the password or key code, perhaps running a checksum on the settings in NVRAM and comparing them with the defaults. If the same, the router hasn't been configured.

Or, like me, they also can't remember the goofy URL.

It's broken. That's probably not going to fix itself with settings. You've already confirmed that your test laptop is totally functional with a BEFW11S4. The router is sick, sick, sick.

Maybe it was doing an automagic firmware update upon initial connection? Did you give it enough time to finish?

I had the same problem when I was driving a small (Dodge D50 diesel) pickup. I could only carry so much in the front seat. So, after I blew up the engine, I bought an Isuzu Trooper. Now, I can carry everything I own and still have room for the groceries. By coincidence, I spent about 4 hours yesterday doing nothing but cleaning out the troop carrier, so I can haul magazines and dead computers to the recycler. However, I overshot and am now looking for something smaller that will serve the function, but with better gas mileage. I really miss the 30+ MPG on the diesel.

w_tom hath wroth:

Sorry, but that only works with the Microsoft Active-AC smart power cord. It's plug-n-play into the wall socket, loads a DRM enabled license to operate the power cord, checks compatibility with the attached equipment, verifies if you've paid your assorted annual license fees to Microsoft, and then applies power to your computer (after checking for updates).

Yeah, I do that sometimes. I never seem to have enough equipment or variables. I guess I can buy more equipment on eBay, but where do I purchase more variables?

"Break the problem down into parts"? Well, I can add an axe in my tool kit, but breaking into parts that way does tend to invalidate the warranty. Are you sure this is a good idea?

I'm not clear if you're referring to me or to the 2wire phone support personality. I thought it expedient to ask before I invoke my wrath.

The US Novice class of ham radio operator was dropped in April, 2000.

As support is probably in India, their ham licensing structure is rather different from the US. See:

for the various license grades. Looks like they also don't have a Novice license grade.

I might try that on Saturday.

Not very Wizardly, is it?

That looks like a manually mangled link from the emulator, but I can piece together what you are trying to do. http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=A11

I like to confirm that it's working, break it, and recover it manually. I want to know that the base works before I fuss.

It's no longer sick. It died. It clicked a few times, like an old modem trying to go off hook, and now it's dead. PS puts out +5vdc, unloaded, but there are no lights.

That's a good thought. I don't recall the time correlation of the slow pings. When it is working well, the downloads from dslreports are so consistently close to 2048KBytes/sec that it must be a cap. Uploads are around 480. The 2wire status page says Downstream Rate: 2496 kbps Upstream Rate: 512 kbps (I love the capitalization conventions).

The at&t DSL speed test seems to have problems of it's own. It never reports over 400KBytes/sec down, even on my 10Mbps cable. Oops, that's just "Irvine". "San Francisco" and "Pleasanton" are both at

8Mbps for my cable. At another location, I was puzzling over a throughput chart from NGenius (I think a Cisco product), where two different charts in the same pdf report output file seem to conflict. One shows "24mbps" which I can believe is a Megabit/sec rate on a DS3, but another chart that shows usage per TCP port shows 3mbps, which seems coincidentally close to a MegaByte/sec rate.

Chevy Tracker?

That's one possibility I hadn't thought about. Thanks. I'm looking for a Toyota RAV-4, Honda CR-V, or similar vehicle. I've only just begun reading, asking, and searching so I know next to nothing about these.

Incidentally, I just finished 3 trips to the local eWaste recycler today in my Isuzu. It would only have been one trip with my previous pickup truck. I also brought back a mess of wireless, network, and salvage stuff. Cleaning the office seems hopeless and I'm just getting started. Garbage in - garbage out.

On the contrary. Wizards are known to disappear without notice, often with an accompanying puff of smoke. Try some magic incantations.

The original URL shown was rather weird. It included the previous and the next page in the URL. At least it wasn't 3 lines long (256 chars maximum) as I've seen on some web piles.

I presume you mean the BEFW11S4. This seems odd to have two electrical devices go up in smog at the same location. You might want to bring an AC volts guesser and ground fault tester on saturday. Check for creative AC wiring. Methinks it's improbable but I've been suprised before. If the 117v 2 phase has the ground return lifted at the breaker box, the voltage will not equalize on the two phases. You could easily get 80VAC on one phase, and 130VAC on the other. Watch for lights that are unusually dim or unusually bright.

It's a capitalist country. Get used to it. The conspiracy against capitalization is certainly here. Note the ocassional message in this newsgroup in all lower case. Someone out there hates capitalists.

You have to pick the correct location. It's often not the closest. For example, my Santa Cruz IP address resolves to the router in San Francisco, even though Santa Clara is much closer. Same with other DSL lines that terminate all over the SF Bay area.

Sorta. One version uses Netflow, which is a Cisco feature:

I don't have any experience with it.

Like Jeff, I also cannot get enough details. However, most of those details are completely useless - tell us nothing useful - until fundamental information is established such as dB signal strength or signal to noise ratios. I went laser beam direct to where your tech support should have started if their management had properly trained that tech support AND management (for both router and your computer) had provided essential support utilities. Demonstrated is how a consumer becomes a victim because essential information and tools were withheld.

Breaking a communication problem down into parts starts with signal strength - and not with anything that was done previously. That information should be found in the router's server page (too often not found) and is provided by WiFi utilities for better computers. IOW if your computer or WiFi manufacturer does not provide such fundamental dB numbers, then get or borrow one that does provide basic facts. One responsible example is provided with all Dells.

Somehow, you must establish signal strength integrity. That means getting your computer to work with another known WiFi network. Or borrowing a computer from a more responsible manufacturer that does have a useful WiFi utility - does report dB signal strength.

Even with Windows (and no IP addresses properly or improperly set, encryption on or off, no channel changes, etc), see WiFi's SSID on Windows' Wireless Internet or "View Available Wireless Networks" page. Less useful is same information in OSX. Either way and using grossly insufficient information - how far away is computer taken before that network SSID name is lost? Number of feet separation - a 'walk away' test - is a useful number.

Most of above was to summarize details for others who are following this thread.

Your utility, stated in percentages (even less useful than '5 bars'), says that with greater distance between a computer (client) and base stations, then signal drops off so quickly to below -80 dB in only 30 feet. If I understand your post, you have two base stations

- a 2wire 2701 and a Netgear. As you 'walk away', the Netgear signal gets weaker but remains strong enough to maintain what is probably reported as 100% data transfers. Not a good number - but at least something to work with. Meanwhile, the 2wire 2701 data signal was already so pathetic weak as to even drop below 100%. That could be a symptom of a transceiver disconnected from its antenna. The symptom could not be more obvious. Responsible tech support should have identified that symptom and laser beamed in on the problem in less than a minute. Problem was that simple.

Transceiver inside the 2wire 2701 is somehow 100% defective as best we can tell by kludging a diagnostic utiliity - the 'walk away' test. Why so much changing of things completely irrelevant such as channel change, IP address, etc? No basic diagnostic utilities reporting useful numbers and tech support devoid of any training.

Nothing involving IP address, signal changes inside the WiFi base router, etc should have even been considered by any tech until signal strength had been even considered. A perfect example of complexity only because a problem was not broken down into parts. You are a victim of gross technical stupidity from both the WiFi support utility designer, from its tech support, and from a computer that also does not provide dB numbers is a WiFi utility program. You had to perform a 'walk away' test because so many others did not do their jobs. But then decades ago, Barbie said, "Math is hard." This was a simplest problem made complex because simple diagnostic utilities AND trained tech support was not provided.

Who was the 2wire 2701 tech support and what computer manufacturer did not provide useful WiFi diagnostic utilities? What brands should be all be avoid> But Jeff likes lots of details ;-)

I don't see the Tracker in the 2007 EPA guide, but then we aren't talking new, are we?

The Mercedes R320 Diesel SUV is rated 21/28 MPG. But, I think we're talking a long payback in fuel savings ;-)

I think Jeff is more of a Honda Element (EPA 21/26) kind of guy. Or maybe the Ford Escape Hybrid (36/31).

Oh, no, the 2wire died. Lots of other investigation would be spawned if a trusty device "happened" to fail at the same site. Just for exercise, I think I'll help another lady install a 2wire down the street, see how that works out.

I had that happen 15 years ago. One too many devices on one leg, and the other leg rose to the point where something burned, and a there was a cascade of smoked devices around the house. Neutral was loose at the feed to the fuse block.

My favorite bright lights this week are the 23w CFL four pack at Safeway for $0.99.

They all seem pretty stable, except for Irvine, which is always way low.

But the other oddities suggest that signal strength isn't the core of the problem. A misbehaving router is. Starting with a wired connection to prove the base is more important than reporting uncalibrated WiFi dB.

Oh, I have done that. A lot. That is a base that the telephone folks can't assume, but once I told them it was true, it made no difference.

That just isn't my definition of a responsible manufacturer.

Wow, that was a long paragraph, but the "walkaway test" is about 15-20 feet with the two wire, and 60+ feet with a Netgear in the same location. I only tested the Linksys to 20 feet, but my signal display showed a big difference there.

I disagree wholeheartedly. The numbers don't matter, a comparative scale matters, combined with the walkaway. The chart pops up about 2/3 of the width of the screen, with little icons for different WAPS, with a perfectly useful 1-100 scale across the bottom. Some experience with what the low percentages mean would be helpful, like how low does it get before the speed drops. Jeff likes to lock the speed and perform a walkaway test, but I always forget to lock the speed.

80% is a signal strength indication, not a packet loss indication. That might have been confusing. From the help screen: "You will see a graphical depiction of the wireless networks found. From left-to-right across the graph, networks are shown in decreasing order of signal strength."

But it didn't work wired either.

2wire, AT&T, IBM, and Microsoft seem to be the major parties at fault by your definition. Throw Atheros, Netgear, Linksys, Belkin, and DLink onto your stack as well.

Which alternative ones do you like?

Subaru Forester you might look at too. Trackers are cheaper, of course. Look for a stick shift -- the automatic is a bit sluggish, I'm told. I drove a Scirocco for 17 years, I don't like sluggish.

It's surprising how much you can put into a Tracker with the seats up. The 4WD is very nice in the snow too, but I guess that's not something you need to worry about.

If "it didn't work wired either", then nothing involving WiFi should have been considered. But another example of trying to solve a loose power cable by using Windows. Another example of tying to solve a problem without first breaking problem down into simpler parts.

I thought we were solving a WiFi problem because other simpler modem/ router options were working. Long before even looking at WiFi, the simplest hardware interface (ethernet) first must be confirmed. Even the DSL interface would be ignored.

I am completely surprised your 2wire does not have a master reset button to set all options to a default state. Only doing this from the DSL interface is bogus. Are you sure there is no hole from which to press the master reset switch?

I was under an impression that your computer hardwired to the 2wire modem/router was displaying status screens OK. First, you are accessing it via ethernet - not via USB - I hope. Second, the IP address of the 2wire 'server' is usually 192.168.1.1 or 192.167.0.1. However I see indications that yours is using 192.168.1.254. Fine. Whatever that IP address is, we will refer to the modem/router IP address as 192.168.x.x.

At least one computer is connected to any ethernet port. The equivalent of WiFi signal strength is indicated by two LEDs at each end of cable. One set on the computer; other on the 2wire. One LED should light to indicate a connection. Otther LED may light to indicate signal speed or blink to indicate data transfer. Nothing else should be attempted until that condition is found good (just like signal strength on WiFi must be established before doing anything else with WiFi).

Now set the computer IP address to a manually set number (a static address) such as 192.168.0.50 or 192.168.1.50. Once that address is set, then computer (using Internet Explorer) should display server data from 2wire modem/router. Does it? Can you enter http://192.168.x.x and get the server home page displayed? Listed were other text addresses that should also display that 2 wire modem/router server home (status) page. Page should display using both addresses. This completes a first test - computer talks to server only via ethernet wire. Same test also works just fine with WiFi enabled or disabled.

Second test means connecting a second computer via another 2wire router ethernet port. Set that 2nd computer to a static IP address of

192.168.x.51. Now both computers can talk to each other. Any one computer must ping the other and do so repeatedly.

For example, a Windows computer from Command Prompt would enter ping -t 192.168.x.50 to ping itself repeatedly. And then execute the program ping -t 192.168.x.51 to ping the other computer. "-t" is the option to ping repeatedly. Both must report a response time of less than 20 milliseconds and without any missing replies.

Just another example of breaking the problem down into parts. That router from computer to computer is a most basic functions that does not use other functions inside the 2wire modem/router. Breaking down the box into individual functions; then establishing the integrity only of that function - definitively. Definitively being essential before moving on to other unknown functions such as the WiFi function.

Now for an even better tool. If both computers use an ethernet interface from the same manufacturer, then that manufacturer has a diagnostic intended to both find intermittent failures AND that will truly result in a 'definitive' conclusion. Load that manufacturer diagnostic in both computers (meaning both are executing only the diagnostic and not even running Winodws, OSX, or Linux).

One computer is setup as a mirror or data responder. The other (or others) output data repeatedly in worst case forms. If the source computer does not see data echoed back, then it reports a failure. This test has often found ethernet failures not found by other means. It also finds slow data transfers due to ethernet problems. IOW this is the best test of data from and to computers via router's ethernet ports. Again, the word is 'definitively'. A router that can process ethernet diagnostic data in this worst case form is then 'definitively' good only on its ethernet interface.

BTW, these worst case ethernet tests can be executed with WiFi enabled and disabled. Now we are taking a known good part of the modem/ router and expanding those test out into other modem/router functions. Does enabling or disabling WiFi interfere with that worst case data transfers? WiFi on or off should not make any difference.

Of all tests proposed, this worst case data transfer between computers of same ethernet manufacturer is 'the' most comprehensive (definitive) diagnostic to establish router's ethernet port integrity. Once ethernet port integrity is established, then move on to other suspects (functions) inside that modem/router.

F> But the other oddities suggest that signal strength isn't the core of the

The 2wire 2701HG has a factory reset button on the rear panel. Look for the tiny red circle.

Be prepared to re-enter the keycode. For PBI/SBC/AT&T, it's probably: 522P-22P4-6262-22AT-F2NV