Looking for hardware opinions for rural link

I would like a wireless link for Internet access and phone service (through the net). I live near the Oregon coast. No land lines here, and no cell service. Now have Direcway but, uplink speed slow (as low as 22k at times), and latency and packet loss (I assume, voice unintelligable) too bad for phone service. In addition, FAP (although I only hit it 3 times in several years) nearly had me take a sledge hammer to it. Normally I'm using pretty minimal bandwidth, just email and browser, but pull chunks when upgrading computers, and have problems trying to do a video chat with family. Never have gotten into games or file sharing. Do a few websites, and uploads are very irritating (at work I'm used to the dual T3s, and have had them available for many years there).

I've seen some complete bridging setups that range from 6 to 8k per link (like Carlson or Motorola). Double that for me. I could not afford it. Also, the area is frequently used for hunting, 4-wheeling, etc. Quite a few yokels out here that shoot up equipment for fun. I need something relatively inexpensive so that I can afford to replace it occasionally, when vandals hit. I've been perusing wireless links for 8-9 years now, but have no experience other than the WGR614 Netgear at home.

Required: - 512k both directions (1M would be a plus) - inexpensive hardware (I might spend a couple thousand dollars, I would not spend 10k) - a repeater since I live in a hilly, forested area and have no LOS to the source - always on, and available for phone through internet in emergencies (one of the mostimportant considerations) - point-to-point (point to multipoint from repeater site to remote would be a plus - a couple neighbors might share some costs then)

Source Site: Oregon central Coast Elevation: 40m

Repeater Site: 16.6Km from Source Elevation: 488m No utilities vailable

Remote Site: 4.5Km from Repeater Elevation: 364m My home (Remote Site) is actually about 100m below the radio site on the opposite side of the hill. Have normal grid power. I saw an earlier post suggesting a program called Radio Mobile. I downloaded it and plotted a couple of links (prior to that I've only used Topo USA for profiling terrain). If anyone is interested, I posted the profiles (viewable with rmpath.exe) to: frenock.com/radioMobile along with a jpeg (500k) and the map file the program created (3.7M).

Lastly, we are heavily forested out here with firs over 50m. Depending on the chosen site, this would require a huge tower to top them which I am unlikely to want to buy and install, even if I could get permissions for it. What's the chances of placing an antenna part way up one of these trees (as far as movement and alignment for these long links)? Has anyone tried that before?

Snow is infrequent. Winter weather mild, but much precipitation. There are emergency towers and radios about 3 miles away, at right angles to the line from the remote site to town. I'm hoping to hook up to an ISP at the source site (Newport, OR). I haven't done any type of check for frquencies in use out here, but it is a remote area and unlikely that I'd have much to contend with. State police and county sheriff vehicles out here have no reception unless they get up on a ridge.

What I'm looking for is your opinions, suggestions, for the equipment. I've read some of the earlier posts concerning power requirements for a solar site, etc. Not wanting you to re-hash that, but keep it in mind when suggesting equipment.

I've managed to stay confused about the hardware requirements for the repeater. Does it require two seperate units in most cases? I've seen hardware like the Airpoint XO2 that features dual radios and seems to suggest it will work as a repeater with two antennas facing opposite directions (I assume one radio for each antenna, and an internal connection to pass data). I've seen equipment advertised that show a picture of just what I want (repeater on top of a mountanous mid-point), but they don't mention whether that requires two units, or just two antennas, etc.

What else can I give you that might help your suggestions? Have a great day!

bobf.

Reply to
bobf via HWKB.com
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Check with your local school system. In a small town in northern Idaho (no cable or dsl) I found they were using a repeater/relay system on a nearby Mountain (Mount Spokane), and their ISP let me glom onto it for a very small fee per month.. Turns out that most schools these days have hi-speed internet for the students and teachers... You probably have schools, and oregon probably has mountains, so they may know how you can do it the same as they do... Worth a shot... I never bothered setting up the direcway cuz I found a better way (with no fap and no latency)..

Just for fun, I looked at this link

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Reply to
Peter Pan

Worth a try. From what I understood, there was a mess of fiber laid in Newport and Toledo. The city got to use a lot that was going unused. I just assumed that schools would be hooked to that, but never thought to check. The other factor is that the towns lie close to sea level while I'm inland about 10 miles. Neither town could reach me LOS from anywhere close.

I browsed through the listings, but I don't think you understand. Unless they can punch through 1200 foot ridges over a minimum of 10 miles and get back down to several hundred feet - its not happening. The likelyhood of any provider putting towers out in the forest for the few scores of people with property within 10 miles of me is pretty remote.

As I said, cell phones do not work out here either.

bobf.

Reply to
bobf via HWKB.com

I wonder if you may have misunderstood what they do in some areas of the northwest (Northern Idaho and NE Washington at least)... The spokane rathdrum skynet area was 100's of square MILES of hi-speed wifi.. Not some wimpy "hotspot" that was only a few hundred feet, we are talking tens of MILES... I used to have Hi-speed internet on the PDA with them even when out ATV'ng, on the boat on several lakes, driving around, riding the horses etc, even on a jetboat on the snake river in hells canyon)... It is on a lot of mountain tops ringing a HUGE area, and provides service in areas where there's no electricity, and even cellphones don't work.... Doesn't need use any towers in the area, can be on a mountain top about 20 miles away, and high speed microwave links can even be on a mountain up to 50 miles away....

The link was to a map of high speed wireless in the oregon area, and while you may be in an area that isn't covered (have no idea where exactly you are, I asked, but you didn't answer and I have no idea)

Guess what I am saying is that was my attitude a while back (hey, I'm way out in the sticks, in a valley with mountains almost ((note the word "almost" was about 20 degrees of a circle that wasn't ridges, and there happened to be a site in that direction) all around, there couldn't possibly be anything).. was changed big time when I ran the free program "netstumbler" (from

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ministumbler from the same URL for my PDA with built in WiFi) and showed active wifi in my area, I didn't even think it was possible... (To be honest, I did have to use a USB directional dongle on the TV mast in the garage/playroom area, there was a metal snowroof on it and it wasn't seeing anything), but what the heck, the netstumbler is free, and won't cost anything to at least give it a shot.. As for the cellphone stuff, it doesn't normally work in this area, but I have a repeater at my home (high power directional yagi on the roof aimed at a cell site about 18 miles away, BDA and omni for service on my property, also happened to work for my data card)... Sounds silly, but I am an internet junkie, and went a little nuts trying to get the hi-tech stuff working where it wasn't supposed to :) (check out the website
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and look at the home repeaters, no cell access in my area unless the neighbors where in my driveway! :)

While none of these ideas may work for you, i think the biggie for me was trying to actually see what was out there, rather than assume there wasn't anything..

Reply to
Peter Pan

I probably have no idea.

The closest town is Toledo, and I'm trying for Newport (noted in my original post.) According to the map you referenced, this area seems pretty well saturated with coverage. On a skeptical note, cell sites show similar coverage that I don't have.

My misperception (if it is) is due to everyone dwelling on LOS (including many posts in this forum) of which I have none (my horizon goes from 10's of yards to less than a mile and there is vitually nothing man-made in that area) I've heard of netstumbler many times but never tried it. Guess now I will.

I looked into antennas and amplifiers for the cell phone. I understood that you needed at least an indication of a signal, even if you couldn't connect. I don't have that. Nearest area where I use the cell is about 3.5 miles up the road, and it's spotty. 7 miles the other direction.

Sounds silly, but I am an

It's absolutely great where I live, so I'm willing to go the extra mile for my fix also ...

You're right. I should systematically eliminate the possibilities, especially considering I have no no real experience with WiFi. Heck, I've never even connected at a hot-spot. Closest thing was a motel room when away on business. Appreciate the suggestions.

bobf.

Reply to
bobf via HWKB.com

My thinking tells me to try what people say is impossible.. Didn't Columbus think the world was round, and discover north america when all the people said he was crazy, the world was flat and he would fall off? :)

Reply to
Peter Pan

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:48:12 -0400, "Peter Pan" wrote in :

The three laws of prediction:

  1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
  3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

-Arthur C. Clarke

Reply to
John Navas

"bobf via HWKB.com" hath wroth:

LOS is important. If you manage to find a wireless connection that's NOT in the LOS, chances are very high that you will have an unreliable connection. It will work, but small changes in the path will cause large changes in your signal strength. In addition, long paths run into problems with edge diffraction, also known as the Fresnel Zone. You can have optical line of sight, but that's not good enough. You need more than optical clearance, especially at midpoint, or your signal will take a turn in another direction when it hits an obstruction in the Fresnel Zone.

I suggest Kismet for Linux on a LiveCD as it shows more wireless devices. Netstumbler will show access points, ad-hoc networks, and wireless routers. Kismet adds client radios.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

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