Looking for advice on wireless set up

Been a lurker for a while have expermiented abit with wireless. (thanks seaweed steve & Jeff L) But I need some assistance on another project , here are the specs:

Internet is currently being recieved at house 1. From there the stock linksys "G" router is rebroadcasting the internet to the shed and house 2. The range extender is also stock at house 2. There are no neighbours for at least a mile in all directions.

Looking for different suggestions on how to cost effectively get good signal to all locations, Can I install a poe omni directional antenna that would reach both locations. Would it be better to get the seano ecb 3220 and set up wireless bridges to to both locations.

I have created a pdf of the yard site for clarification if you think you can help and would like the pdf, send me an email and I send it to you.

Thanks in advance,

Bryon

Reply to
Bryon Friesen
Loading thread data ...

Antennae are not PoE. PoE allows putting the router itself closer to the antenna. You want the cable between the antenna and the router to be as SHORT AS POSSIBLE. The longer the cable (even with very high quality, very expensive, cable) you're still faced with signal loss. Where as PoE over CAT5 is quite a lot less expensive.

That and directional antenna allows focusing the signal where it's most effective. For something like houses you're better off using directional antennae. Why waste signal putting it out where it's not needed?

As for range extenders, ugh, personally I hate them. They're basically walkie-talkie radios. You end up wasting bandwidth (throughput and speed) using them. Sure, they "work" but at a considerable hit on performance. Combine them with omni directional antennae and multiple users and you have a recipe for disaster. You might get "coverage" in all places but the actual throughput will likely be terrible.

Then there's the question of managing bandwidth. Sharing bandwidth when others start hogging the wire is a lot harder to manage when you're dealing solely with an omni-directional setup.

-Bill Kearney

Reply to
Bill Kearney

There will be a max of 3 users at most. Can you run two external antennas off of one router?? Would that be my best bet? I have been looking at cable prices and yes they are expensive, that is why I was wondering about the POE setups

formatting link
is one that I was looking at.

Bryon

Reply to
bryonfriesen

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:12:55 -0800 (PST), bryonfriesen wrote in :

Generally a bad idea. Use either a high-gain omni if you can live with the narrow vertical pattern, or multiple wireless access points with directional high-gain antennas.

Best to pick wireless access points designed for the application, with POE built-in, often with attachable high-gain omni or directional antennas; e.g., Senao 3220 or 8610.

Reply to
John Navas

ok, so from the house where my internet comes to I have a wireless G router, I then buy two Senao 3220 and two 8610. I aim the two 8610 at my two seperate locations. Wire them up with cat 5e, then conenct both senao bridges to my wireless "G" router, should I need anything at the revieving ends another senao 3220 and atenna???

Bryon

Reply to
Bryon Friesen

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:12:56 -0600, "Bryon Friesen" wrote in :

I would start by buying two Senao units with high-gain directional antennas.

  1. Install one Senao in the closest remote location, configure it as a wireless Ethernet client bridge, and see if that's enough to get reliable signal from the wireless G router at the house.
  2. If (1) works, install the other Senao unit at the other remote location the same way, and if that works, you're all done.
  3. If either (1) or (2) doesn't work, try the other Senao unit at the house, cabled to your wireless G router, configured as a wireless access point (not router). If you get strong signal with the high-gain directional antenna at the house, then buy a high-gain omni for the house and see if that works for both remote locations.
  4. If (3) high-gain omni does work, then you need to buy one more Senao unit with high-gain directional antenna for the other remote location.
  5. If (3) high-gain omni doesn't work, then you'll need two Senao units at the house, and will have to buy two more Senao units, one for the house and one for a remote location, both with high-gain directional antennas.

All antennas should be high-gain directional except if you're able to get a high-gain omni to work at the house so that one Senao at the house can service the two remote locations.

Hope that helps (and that I didn't make a misteak). .

Reply to
John Navas

1) When you say "range extender" do you mean repeater? I've seen people use this term in different ways. 2) Are your two remote places in opposite directions from the main house so that one directional antenna won't work? 3) What part is not working now? Why do you think that is?

I do want to add a comment that counters the usual "no antenna cable" rule; In some situations, it makes sense to me to run an cable to a remote antenna rather than add another radio.

For example: If your base or gateway router is connecting to indoor computers by ethernet as well as wirelessly to remote locations, then it's not efficient to put that router in a box. If you don't need it's radio for inside the house, then you can use it for the remotes by tacking on an antenna cable.

Buying an AP all-in-one box to tack onto that router might be best, but in our situation, I chose not to buy a second radio just to avoid a 2 db loss. It just was not that critical. I installed a 30' LMR400 cable ($30 from CompUSA) and a 12 dbi directional antenna ($30 online) instead. LMR400 loses .25 db per meter. I got an effective 10 dbi directional antenna (more or less) mounted just where I wanted it, for $60. It has great range. Plus I have one box, not two, to maintain at the gateway. In our environment, that made sense, and I have not regretted it.

Another bit of contrary advice: You don't necessarily need POE. I just installed a rootenna with a WRT54G in it. I spliced some 16 ga zip cord into the power supply to extend it into the box up the pole. Works fine. I understand that the WRT is particularly resilient for voltage variations, so I was not worried about a bit of voltage loss for the extra 15' of cable. I should've done the math, but I didn't.

Because of being in a remote location, I prefer to use the simplest and most common devices and as few as possible. It may be different for others.

I am not trying to undermine the excellent advice others are offering, just broadening your perspective on what can work.

Cheers, Steve

Reply to
seaweedsteve

I'm still curious to hear your answer to this question. It looks like you have something set up, so where is it broken?

More questions:

Is your stock router "broadcasting" from the tower shown or from inside the house? Does the tower have line of sight to where you want to connect? Is the repeater problematic?

All this helps to sort out how big of a hammer you really need. You mention that cost-effective is important. If you just need a bit more signal strength, then a number of simpler solutions might serve.

Also;

Is the shed on the same electrical drop as the main house? The house across the road? Powerline networking may be a good option for the shed especially.

Do you want/need wireless coverage at the house across the street or is it just a connection for fixed pcs? How about in the shed?

After seeing your pdf, I can see that you do have about a 110 degree window to cover with one antenna from your tower, if it's a given that you will put an antenna there. To do so you will need a sector antenna (expensive unless you DIY) or, more typically, an omni for that coverage..

Or else you tackle each direction separately as has been suggested.

First thoughts: An omni might work fine if your two remote sites are at the same elevation more or less. And if a 30' cable will get you there, then that Hawking from CompUSA looks cost-effective. Will also need an N>TNC adapter for it though.

With line of site for 500 feet, if you are currently getting it to work from inside the house on a stock antenna, then just getting an omni up on the tower may work wonders.

You might want to play with a link budget calculator here to sort out gain needed. There are some typical numbers to use for power and sensitivity (see examples), then try plugging in different numbers for your antenna - cable gains at each end.

You can find links at the wireless wiki John has in his sig. Also, for calculating cable loss:

formatting link
Plug 2400 Mhz into the frequency.

Thing to do is sort out delivery path(s) first, then decide whether to go with coax to inside or a separate AP in a box. I can't see justifying two units on your tower with such a simple setup though .

Steve

Reply to
seaweedsteve

=46rom in the house

Yes

It carries the signal but fades out also

Not sure The house across the road?

Not sure

Powerline networking may be a good option for the shed especially.

It would be nice to have wireless on the yard infront of the shed, I Think if I can get internet stable to house #2 all year long if they had to only use a cable then I think they would live with it. They have a laptop at the second location.

That is kind of why I was wondering about a Rootena with the seano bridge. I can use a network cable up to the antenna to get more distance and I thought that it being powered would make it stronger.

formatting link
I liked the idea of converting the coax to a network cable.

Not sure if 30' would get me over the trees and into the house.

That is a good thought any hardware suggestions

I would probably order LMR400 cabke again from

formatting link

Thanks for all the info so far, I have added some responses to the questions.

Bryon

Reply to
bryonfriesen

Considering that:

1) the installation is almost working inside the house (a slightly bigger hammer is all that's called for) 2) you want wifi in front of the shed as well as inside (simple powerline networking is out, though a two piece solution with separate AP could still work) 3) you don't know if 30 feet is enough to get your "base station" antenna all the way up in the air.

Then a single AP with an omni antenna may very well be appropriate here. I might start with an AP that has it's own box and POE (power over ethernet) and a medium- gain omni. You didn't mention if there's much altitude difference in your coverage area, but hi gain omni's (10db+) can be too limited in their vertical beamwidth.

This will allow you to do the main thing, which is get an antenna up high I did a test on our system before buying a high gain antenna to see. I taped our router with it's stock (2dbi) antenna to a long stick with an extension cord and an ethernet cable. Getting it up high, with line of sight, I went to the distant site and found that my signal jumped from marginal (-80db) to workable (approx -72 db) using the stock 4 dbi . This told me that 3-6 db further antenna gain was going to be enough. I think that you would find the same thing and can do the same test if you want.

Here's a candidate for an AP in your case:

formatting link
Some say that these boxes are tricky to setup- poor interface. But they have a rep as being pretty good gear. Read the reviews for it and the similar one with a patch antenna to get an idea for yourself on the product.

This one has an external connector, so if, after installing it, the signal is still not strong enough, you can upgrade to a higher db omni or some other (sector?) antenna.

Get this first and see how it works before sorting out the rest, I suppose.

Though I can recommend an additional purchase:

A client adapter (USB or Ethernet) with an external antenna connector is a nice problem solver to have with you and could bail you out if the existing Linksys extender/repeater won't work or you need better reception somewhere else.

Since we are at NewEgg, here's a couple of cheap ethernet AP/client adapters that look interesting:

formatting link
?Item=3DN82E16817201523 For compactness and connection power, you can't beat a USB client adapter with an external antenna connector - something like this one:

formatting link

As I said, these are great problem solvers and one of them might serve here. The USB is smaller, but less flexible and shorter more expensive cable extension (15' limit passive). The Ethernet ones will do much more.

In either case, putting a directional antenna on one of these could really make the difference on range if the included antenna is still not enough.

As far as that RJ45 connector system you linked, I don't see the need. Just use what comes with your AP in a box.

Cheers, Steve

Reply to
seaweedsteve

EDIT My stock antenna at that time was a 2dbi, as yours probably is.

steve

Reply to
seaweedsteve

Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.