Linksys VOIP Modem 2102 on Tranzeo wireless

Nick M. Walsh hath wroth:

Sorry. I don't do stump grinding or pulling. Dig out the roots, wrap a chain around the stump, and pull it out with a tractor.

Model number of Tranzeo please?

Cable "drop" as in cable modem or telco DSL modem? Both use the same term to describe the wire that "drops" between the telephone pole and the subscriber. However, the real question is that there has to be a router in this mess somewhere. Where is the main router? Are there routers at the two farm houses? Make and model please?

Ok. We have 3 radios. Which one is the "first" radio? Is this the one at the "drop" or where the internet connects? If it's an access point and not a router, are you getting more than one IP address from the ISP? Without an NAT router, that would be necessary.

I'm jealous. I'm only getting 1.5Mbits/sec. Sniff.

I suspect that the farm owner would have more use for the VoIP than the house. Houses don't talk. Any particular Linksys VoIP model? Does it have a router inside?

No router? Anywhere? That means you must have more than one IP address from the ISP. Is that correct?

Well, you have to make a connection to a SIP provider before that will work. In theory, with no routers anywhere in the system, you should have no problems with port forwarding or a firewall blocking traffic. However, your description of the system layout is rather lacking, and I can't figure out what you have to work with. Try again please?

What web based utility?

No, but it would be easy enough to drag the mystery Linksys VoIP box over to where the internet arrives, plug it into the switch and see if it works there. That will take the entire wireless pretzel out of the picture and determine if the VoIP box can even be made to function. If that works, then there's something odd happening in the system. My guess(tm) is that without any routers anywhere in the system, the mystery Linksys VoIP box is not getting an IP address from the ISP.

The company is

The model I am using is: The TR-902 ... here

The farm house at the very end of the Cable companies area. We purchased service there. In the barn I placed the first radio. It can be configured as a bridge or router. I have it as a router with static ip. It boasts these features:

• Low Power Requirements - Requires only 7 Watts! * Supports 802.11 b/g modes * DSSS Technology in 802.11b mode * OFDM Technology in 802.11g mode * Quality of Service (QoS) * Dual Powered Ethernet Ports * Web-Based Interface * Robust NAT Routing * Security (WEP, WPA, MAC Authentication) * Tunneling Protocol support * Configuration LEDs (if in Access Point mode) * Alignment LEDs (if in Client Adapter mode) * SNMP * Includes: PoE, Boot-Cover, Mounting Kit (Dual Ethernet Boot Cover Optional)

The head end unit (router) receives input directly from the DSL Modem. The router is configured for the IP assigned to this physical location. At the receiving farm houses I configured the cableco's primary and secondary dns servers and set IP to obtain automatically. Either home has no problem with service.

Yes, I suggested that to him and then he started calling me "HAL

9000". The only time I got a smile was when he logged onto the speed test site and pinned the meter at 13 MB/sec. That was an anomoly. Its only been 9 - 10 MB/sec since. It will drop in the spring when the leaves come out again. He said something about a shotgun and a chainsaw and not to worry.

The VOIP system annoys me though. Just can't get a dial tone. I'll contact Linksys when they wake up to see what's going on. I likely missed some tiny little IMPORTANT detail!

I've opened a can of worms now though. The farmer is talking to all his buddies. I am afraid i am going to get quite busy with this for the next while. And I just learned to spell IP!

:)

It's much like a router in a single home serving a number of PC's. There is just the one IP for the router.

N.

Rangefire Wireless hath wroth:

OK. That's where you have the router. It's running NAT. In order for most (not all) VoIP system to work, you need to setup port forwarding or preferably port triggering on this router. Have you done this? [ ] Yes [ ] No The ports to forward/trigger will depend on the SIP service provider. You managed to also leave that out.

That will be handy for monitoring.

OK. No router at the two farm house ends. Therefore, only the router at the cable end needs to be port forwarded.

Ummm.... Product name please? I guess you just left out half the product name. I guess the VoIP router is a Linksys SPA-2102NA. Is this correct? [ ] Yes [ ] No

I'm fairly sure the problem is either in the way you have the VoIP adapter connected (wired), or port forwarding in the main router. However, you haven't described how those are arranged so I can't offer much help. Perhaps Linksys can help:

Overwork is the price of success.

Please re-read my previous reply. Search for the question marks and note how many of my questions you've ignored.

[X] No

Monitoring? Who cares? These guys buy their own service from the Cable company and shaw with each other. It's just a home connection. From my perspective, I am a laborer putting in a piece of hardware for the client. They own the service. The Cable company provides the service.

I am considering using the Bomgar remote help desk appliance though.

The B100 unit costs about $2000 and can save me a ton of driving.

Remote PC access software can significantly enhance productivity for the one-man help desk. By eliminating driving and needless on-site visits, remote desktop software can help you service more clients in less time. The B100 gives me the most advanced Mac, Linux, and PC remote support solution available on the market today without monthly fees. With the B100, I can remote access to Windows, Mac and Linux desktops through a state-of-the-art appliance that sits on my desk. I can even remote control Windows Mobile devices!

The B100 works through firewalls and requires no pre-installed software on my client's remote computer.

My customers will just pay via PayPal and away we go.

Wrong. Each of the farm houses also have the Tranzeo unit (TR900) to receive their signal. The Tranzeo unit has a built in router that is attached to the antenna. On the configuration screen (192.168.100.1) I go to the DNS Servers and enter the primary and secondary servers just as the head end has (same dns servers).

[X] Yes

I'll go look after I post this because I can't go back while this is open. However, *ignore* implies intent. Ignore is a deliberate action. In this case is is not intent but lack of attention to detail that appears insignificant to someone who doesn't know any better (me). Also consider that I may be "unable" to answer due to my lack of experience.

You won't be able to tell my why I have the problem with this Linksys VOIP modem [model SPA 2102NA] unless you can relate to someone else who you may have personal experience with and whom also failed to achieve a dial tone. I just put it out there in case someone else has experience with the same voip modem from linksys.

I don't know much yet, but I do know that this system is running well otherwise. I suspect that the proxy address that the voip reseller gave to me is unable to tunnel through. I may have to open port 5060 and 5061 on the Tranzeo Router. I don't know how to do that yet, but will by Tuesday.

I will call Linksys and ask them directly. What causes dial tone on a voip phone? That is all I need to do .... to cause my phone to have a dial tone!

Rangefire Wireless hath wroth:

You should if you plan to service this account. You can do quite a bit of wireless troubleshooting with SNMP. It can be done from the internet, but is much easier if it's done with a local admin PC, which you don't have. For two customers, it's certainly overkill. However, if the system grows, it should be considered. For example, if one user catches a virus or worm that hogs all the bandwidth spewing spam, how will you know whom to yell at?

Install and run? Well, that's one way to do business. Unlike land line systems, wireless has the irritating habit of changing with the seasons, with interference, and when something moves. You may not get a call to fix a problem, but you certainly will get one to diagnose one. Also, since you're the obvious first contact, you'll probably get calls for all manner of nonsense that has nothing to do with your installation. Turning that into a paying proposition is tricky but not impossible. The trick is to not make it sound like you've abandoned them.

Nice. Methinks an old PC running RealVNC, PcAnywhere, or XP Remote Desktop, will do much of the same thing. Some routers have built-in PPtP servers, which can be used for remote admin. I use all of these at various sites depending on what I was trying to do at the time. The down side is that even with your 10Mbits/sec speed, remote admin performance is limited by the speed of the outgoing connection, which I'll guess is less than 768Kbits/sec on your cable connection. If this outgoing bandwidth is constipated by worms, DDoS junk, or spam, remote admin becomes futile (unless you setup QoS).

Now that would be interesting. I have a WM5 PDAphone (Verizon XV6700) and a WM 2003 Samsung i700. This I wanna try (later).

There's your problem. I've been trying to pry out of you where the router(s) are located and the IP layout. You have what is called "Double NAT" where the IP addresses are translated twice by the two routers in the path. Each router will need to be setup with port forwarding for the (assumed) SIP service you're using. Calling the VoIP provider will be the obvious first step to find the ports that need to forwarded.

Incidentally, I goofed when I suggested that port triggering will work. It won't because there needs to be a permanent forwarding established so that incoming calls will work. For example, for Vonage, you need to port forward a mess of ports in the router(s):

It's the same with other providers, but possibly different port numbers.

I accidentally found where Vonage mumbles that if you hear dial tone, you have a connection to their system. No dial tone, no connection.

However, you have a potentially fatal problem. If both farmers have the identical Linksys VoIP boxes, with the same VoIP service provider, and requiring the same ports to be forwarded, it can't be done. That's because the first router #1 can't port forward a port simultaneously to two different IP addresses (the IP's of the two client radios). You can get one to work, but not two or more. This is why I (wrongly) assumed that you received more than one IP address from your cable ISP, which would eliminate router #1 and make this thing work.

I think you had better take a close look at your network topology and layout. Double NAT might work for some situations, but it's always a problem with shared systems.

Actually, you can. I'm also using Forte Agent 4.2 and have multiple windows and past posting splattered all over my shrinking screen. (Either the screen is shrinking or my eyes are going. I prefer to think the screen is shrinking). Just minimize the active window, and then bring up any other message or window. From the top menu, use the "Window" pull down to switch the active window as needed.

No, it does not. I don't spend all this time trying to answer your questions for the sole reason of insulting you. My answers tend to be long and involved. It's easy for someone to miss a question. In some cases, the questions are solely designed to get you to think along some particular line. In this specific case, I've asked repeatedly, and in various ways, where are the routers? I'm slowly finding the answers, which appear to be the source of your routing problem.

Possibly. As I recall (I hate re-reading my own postings), I only asked questions about your configuration, topology, IP layout, and installation. I think those are well within your level of expertise.

Well that's fine. I really have very little experience with VoIP and the Linksys SPA-2102NA device. However, I have quite a bit of experience with shared wireless systems and configuring routers to work with various VoIP services. As I see it, you're looking for a problem in the Linksys VoIP device, while I'm looking for a system problem. The double NAT is the problem.

OK, that's a good start. Can I trouble you for the name of the VoIP provider so I'm not guessing as to the IP port forwarding setup? Most providers, such as Vonage Canada, have FAQ's and instructions that detail the port forwarding setup.

While you're waiting for Linksys to answer, may I suggest you follow my previous advice and drag the SPA-2102NA over to the cable modem end, thus eliminating one router, and try it? I think you'll find that without a successful SIP connection, you won't get dialtone.

Good luck and dump the double NAT.

Clipped

I understand. I hadn't planned on growing this part of the business as I thought this to be an anomoly. However, your points are well taken. This means *more* learning! So now I've just Wiki'd SNMP - Great... now I need gravol. I'm so dizzy. I've also looked at what Cisco writes about it. I also went to this site:

appears to have a tutorial on it. This looks like a whole new learning map. Can you suggest a good starting point? What do I need to do this SNMP?

Clipped

Lol.... Install and run is one way of describing it. However it is

*marketed* up front as a project that they own and take responsibility for. I understand you points. That is why I really make sure they know that this whole thing is theirs. If a wind storm blows the antenna/router down, then someone needs to come out and re-install it. So I will always try to ensure that they install it to a very high standard right up front. They know that there could be maintainance costs with this unit otherwise. Since they are accustomed to my computer service business, they know that I would never abandon them. My customers are fiercly loyal. I have one customer (a lady) who lives 250 miles from here. I work her in to other service calls that are near her. She has me upgrade her computer every two years and run a clean up on it twice a year. Each call is a $250 bill. Once I install the Bomgar appliance for remote help desk use I'll be able to eliminate the travel and reduce her cost to $99.

Clipped

I've tried the PCAnywhere method. My customers were just not savvy enough to escort me in. Also, there is the payment problem. With Bomgar, they just click on my PayPal link and pay the $99 bucks. I immediately get a notificiation that they want service. They are emailed a link. All they have to do is click on the link then sit back and watch. Also, Bomgar will survive a re-boot without any customer attention needed. Once I'm done, I terminate the session and the Bomgar utility uninstalls itself from the client machine. I'm paid. They're fixed and happy.

Clipped

In this particular situation I am ok because the other farmer doesn't express a desire to have the viop phone. Yes... I know that could change. Perhaps I should ask the cableco for two static IP's? It would be better anyway because right now there are two customers and only one billing account. Two customers are sharing a $39 per month internet bill. That could be a problem for the cableco if I start expanding.

clipped...

Thanks for that. Just install Agent four days ago so that I could dive into this wireless stuff.

Got it. Thanks.

I see. As per my previous question in this post, do you think I should ask for two static IP's? Also, I am not real clear on NAT and double NAT. I have to read that 254 page ebook you linked me to. I'll get at that this afternoon and tomorow. I have to get up to speed on the basics before I can reasonably understand your language.

Yes. The provider is ACANAC.

They also have a .com extension for the US site. I find their support to be quite minimal. My customer emailed them and they said that ports 5060 and

5061 were the ports they used. I'll see if I can find the email.....

Here some clips from it:

5-Contact your isp and make sure you're not behind a firewall blocking port 5060 ( default registration port ).

.... so I have to figure out how to port forward this port on the Tranzeo router it seems.

I don't know about SIP. I will add that to my study material now. I will bring the spa-2102Na over to my house and try it here. I am on the same cable service. The problem with the farm setting is that the modem is up in an old barn. It's very difficult to acess. Here at my home I can plug it directly into my cable modem and try what you suggest.

I see from Wikipedia that SIP is the de-facto Voip standard. More dizziness....

Any suggestions on reading material on this one?

N.

Rangefire Wireless hath wroth:

I've done quite a bit using SNMP. There are parts that I still do not understand. Learning wireless, SNMP, network management, troubleshooting, and customer relations at the same time is going to be rough. It's like a loaf of bread. Eaten, one slice at a time, it's a good thing. Shove the whole loaf down your throat at once and it's likely to kill you. Take it slowly and easily. SNMP can wait until you understand how simple NAT routers work.

However, playing with SNMP is fun. See:

for a previous rant on the subject.

I'm not sure that's going to work. For example, if you had your vehicle repaired by the local auto shop, and something mysterious happened to the vehicle several weeks later, who would you call for a diagnosis? It may be unrelated, but there's always the temptation to blame whomever worked on it last. The same thing applies to all forms of electronic sales and repair. Either way, you get the phone calls. Whether you get the paying business depends on how you handle those calls. If bill the customer at full rate for what they perceive to be a problem that you created, that's the last time you'll hear from that customer.

That's obviously not your problem. However, if someone else moves into the area with a 2.4GHz wireless network and creates interference, it might be your problem.

I don't like any of the ones I've been playing with. The main problem is having to pre-configure the router port forwarding to talk to a mess of machines behind the router. That's fatal for PcAnywhere and some versions of VNC. I've been playing with Hamachi:

which requires no router pre-configuration.

I'm not sure they will even sell you a 2nd IP. Read the TOS (terms of service) first and see if they allow sharing a consumer grade cable connection. At $40/month, I'm fairly sure they do not. Around here, they treat wanting a 2nd IP as the same as asking for commercial service rates. Sharing is stricly forbidden.

I should probably mention that I'm intentionally going over your head. The idea is not to confuse you. My guess is that you're getting about

50% of the techy parts of my rants. The answers are accurate and as detailed as my time permits. Use Google to fill in the details. May I suggest you concentrate for the moment on dealing with the port forwarding for VoIP issue and not get entangled in the network topology and management issues. The problem and solution is quite simple, but you have to understand what you're doing and why, or you're likely to have a repeat performance when your customers call with the next application that requires *YOU* to do necessary router reconfiguration.

Hint: Login to the routers remotely and save the router configuration. My crystal ball predicts a frustrated customer punching the reset button and losing everything.

There's nothing technical about setup on their web pile. You'll need to forward more than just 5060 and 5061. Did you look at the mess of ports that Vonage uses? It's roughly the same for most SIP phone services:

No, that's the Linksys VoIP router setup. You're looking for the router port forwarding setup. I couldn't find anything on the topic in their FAQ. The closest I got was:

which misses all the outgoing port numbers.

Congrats. In this case, you are the ISP.

All you need to know about SIP is how to configure it for a VoIP connection. Details on how it works can wait. I suggest you concentrate on learning how an NAT router works, especially port forwarding.

Good plan. I presume you have a router, so you'll have some experience configuring it. Note that the Linksys SPA-2102NA needs to have a static IP address on your LAN in order for the port forwarding in your cable router to work. You can use DHCP for tinkering, but eventually, you'll need to nail down the IP address of the device.

I've learned a few things over the years. One of them is to never bury the hardware where I can't get to it. It never fails. If I put something on top of a tower, that's the part that fails. I had a WRT54G wireless router sitting on a small tower on my roof for about 6 months. Every time I needed to do something, I had climb up on the roof and pound on the router. I eventually got smart and ran 50ft of LMR400 coax to the rooftop antenna, and left the router inside. Now, I can juggle routers and radios at midnight without tripping over something on the roof.

Nope. I'll pretend I don't know anything about SIP.

Hi Jeff, Thanks for the advice. I took some daylight hours off and built a sundeck with my brother's help. Got sunburned and sore all over, but gots lots of fresh air. I think the extra oxygen helped. I had the modem at my desk since 5 pm. I did a factory reset then programmed it myself. Learned lesson #2. Customers do not have attention to detail! I went to the "application" tab and forwarded 5061 and 5061. I then entered the proxies *correctly* and it worked great. I tried it with three different systems and it worked great. Connected directly to my DSL modem it was flawless. Connected to a lynksys WRT54G it worked flawlessly. Connected to a line in a local Hotel, it worked perfectly. My wife's been yaking to her friend in Washington for an hour on it now. I downloaded a 600 MB file from Adobe while she was talking and there were no issues. (if you interested in knowing the screens on that Linksys unit I can post pictures of them to my website)

Me thinks I should now dump my Cableco Voip phone for which I am paying $30 a month and get no free LD and take this Acanac service @ $9.95 a month with unlimited calling in North America!

Regarding the learning. I like to be pushed. For sure I google everything. If I find a term I don't know.... I google it. I read about 150 pages a day so it takes some time to get this data in.

Through this and other groups I find that I learn a ton of stuff. There are always a few experts that lurk in the groups and often they generously share their knowledge with the rest of us. And we appreciate it!

Nick Walsh Vancouver, BC