Is there a way to get WiFi NOISE levels for a mobile device?

I don't want to dig up the figures (because I probably can't find them) but I ran a test using these tools about six months or so ago, because the wife kept complaining that her Android phone had no problem connecting to the WiFi extender when she was in her study, but that the iPad wouldn't connect but that it did connect when she was closer to the WiFi extender.

She kept insisting that the WiFi extender I set up was not working.

I used these tools to prove to her what the problem was, and, she has learned to live with it.

But the point of telling this story is that I agree with you that the tools are wonderful for showing what is really going on and making good decisions instead of just guessing and assuming the equipment is "broken" (there's nothing wrong with any of the equipment - I've proven that in other ways). It's just the way it works and is designed, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen
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With the WiFi Analyzer or with InSSIDer, you can easily see both SSIDs on the graphs, so, if one is stopped, it would drop out of sight.

Piece of cake, with the right tools. :)

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Oh. I didn't realize you weren't an American. Sorry about that.

Here, in the states, we pretty much are wired 24/7.

That's why it was such a shock for my daughter, in Europe. She herself has never seen a modem, and certainly has never seen dialup before.

She asked me why the grandparents plugged their computer into the phone line.

:)

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

I get my home WiFi from about 3 or 4 miles away, so, I'm *very* familiar with sending WiFi long distances.

It helps *greatly* to use the same equipment on both sides of the link. The stuff I use is something like 28 decibels (IIRC) which is at the legal limit of power in the USA (which is higher than in most countries).

By way of reference, a typical home router is an absolutely dismal

18 decibels (or so), which they do on purpose, to limit noise.

The difference between 18 and 28 decibels is about ten times the power for the exact same price! (I think people are crazy for using routers as wifi extenders *if* they buy the routers.) I used my old router as a wifi extender because I had it lying around.

But, if I were gonna extend my wifi and buy equipment, I'd *never* use a home router because, as an extender, they're not worth the money (far better extenders are available for the same cost).

If you ever need advice, I can recommend the best cheapest equipment, as can anyone on alt.internet.wireless who is on a WISP like I am.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

You were right Chris!

When my boy with the Moto G came home, I grabbed his phone from him (he thought he was in trouble again!), and I tested it out.

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You are correct that the Moto G does NOT have a page for the 5GHz results. Since it doesn't even have 5GHz results, you don't see the 5G button at the top left either, when you press on the graph.

On my S3, I get both 5G and 2.4G buttons, when I press on the corresponding graphs.

So, you've explained a lot, and I appreciate the technical acumen you've exhibited.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

I think I know why now, that Chris has clued me in.

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On my S3, there is both a 5G and a 2G graph of the local WiFi Access Points, and the buttons show up to switch between the graphs because they use the same page.

However, on my kid's Moto G, there is only the 2.5Ghz graph, so there are no buttons at all.

To confirm, on the Moto G, I pressed the graph, and the buttons I said existed never showed up.

As Chris said, if the phone can't handle 5G, you get only one graph; but if the phone can handle both, then the buttons allow you to switch between the graphs because the use the same page.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Yup. That's what I saw on the Moto G, for the same reason.

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So, I only saw the buttons because my Samsung Galaxy S3 has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz capabilities.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Are you sure?

I have two routers, one hooked up as an extender of the first. Both have the same SSID, but of course, they're on different frequencies and they have a different MAC address so the BSSID for each is different.

On all three tools, I can *see* both in action, although differently.

On inSSIDer, I can see both parabolas, both named the same thing, but with different BSSIDs, and, best of all, I see an asterisk next to the one SSId that I'm connected to.

On WiFi Analyzer, I see almost the same thing, except there is no asterisk and BSSID easily seen on that particular graph (it's on other pages I think).

On WiFI SNR, I see the FREQUENCY and the SSID, and, since the frequency is different between the two SSIDs, I can tell which is which, but I have to kill and restart the app for that to show up (so it doesn't switch on its own automatically).

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Paul B. Andersen wrote

Turns out I am completely wrong. The wifi extender isn't actually working at all. The neighbour has gone away and I didn't notice that the wifi extender isn't working until I ran WiFi Analyser to see if I got the same detail you said you saw with it and discovered its been turned off. It gets its power from a long extension cord which she normally has plugged into a power point in the laundry which has a door to the outside. I've just been there and discovered that she has unplugged that end so she can lock the door. She usually tells me when she is going away to get me to keep an eye on her place while she is away but must have forgotten to tell me or is out of credit on her phone or something. She's got pretty bad arthritis so she normally rings me rather than walking round to tell me when going away.

That brings up another problem with WiFi SNR tho. WiFi Analyser shows me 5-6 of the neighbours'' wifis, WiFi SNR has only ever shown me just the one, my router which is only a couple of feet away from the tablet.

Yeah, that's what I use for a quick check if the wifi extender is still working.

You can't see that on mine, because the setting don't work so you can't turn that text display on. And mine are on the same frequency.

Yeah, that was quite handy when working out where to put the wifi extender. I'd normally prefer to not have it outside, but she doesn't get a good enough signal inside her house to put the wifi extender there, that's why I use a wifi extender at all.

The signal isn't too bad with the Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 that she uses, but not good enough for more than very intermittent use.

I don't use InSSIDer because it isn't free anymore and doesn't provide enough extra functionality to make it worth paying for.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Paul B. Andersen wrote

Yeah, I have always used that one, may well have got it from you.

Yeah, quite handy for me because of the metal fence between me and my neighbour and between the two neighbours that both use my wifi.

Yeah, very useful.

Reply to
Rod Speed

I had noticed something funny also about WiFi SNR not showing all the local polluting WiFi from the neighbors.

I didn't think much of it, until you just said that.

Both WiFi Analyzer and inSSIDer showed all the surrounding access points.

So, it seems that, while WiFi SNR is a great tool for getting the SNR, you need all three:

  1. WiFi SNR (tells you SNR, nothing else will)
  2. WiFi Analyzer (tells you signal strengths well)
  3. InSSIDer (puts an asterisk next to the connected AP)
Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

I see you're a detail person, as I am. That's good. I understand exactly what you said.

I had not realized that the frequency didn't show up in WiFi SNR if you can't get into the SETTINGS to set the text output on.

But, I just tested that on my S3, and I confirm exactly what you said.

a. If the text output is off (default), you do NOT see the frequency. You just see the SSID.

b. If the text output is on, then you do see the fequency.

Of course, if you can't get into the settings, you can't turn on the text output, so you won't see the frequency.

And, since your frequencies are the same, it wouldn't matter.

Worse yet, since WiFi SNR doesn't seem to let you know exactly which BSSID you're connected to, it probably would not help.

InSSIDer (which is now $10) is the only one that I have on my system that will do all of that.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

I agree. InSSIDer was great when it was free, but it's not worth ten bucks over something like Fritz! App Wlan.

Did you try Fritz!App WLAN yet?

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I just ran it on my S3 and it seems to tell me the channel and frequency and BSSID of the router access point that the phone is using.

And, it puts *two asterisks* next to the SSID graph that you are connected to (I'm not sure why it needs two asterisks when one would suffice).

I didn't walk around (am in bed and don't want to wake up the kids by turning off the alarm system) to see if it switches when it sees the WiFi extender, but I'd bet it does.

So, in effect, the freeware Fritz!App Wlan app seems to be a one-to-one replacement for inSSIDer.

Try it out. I think you'll like it for what you need.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

For me, it was absolutely shocking how much the glass attenuated the radio signal. It's like a sheet of aluminum foil.

The *walls* attenuated the radio signal *less* than the window and door glass did!

It's really nice to be able to walk around the house and yard to find where the signal drops off.

Now that I have WiFi SNR, I can also see where the SNR drops to below 10 decibels, which is pretty much probably going to equate to the cutoff point for the WiFI signal for devices with decent antennas.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Paul B. Andersen wrote

Yeah, I remember you mentioning that before.

I use adsl2+ myself and so do most of the neighbours.

I do have quite a few of them, picked them up at garage sales for peanuts and managed to get quite a few that aren't adsl2+ modems, because I managed to not check that carefully, pure routers.

But the wifi extender I got, a medion, was dirt cheap, very easy to configure and much smaller so its more practical to just plug it into one of the 4 mains sockets on the reel on the end of the long extension cord and put that under an inverted picking bucket up on a bench in the garden etc.

True.

The medion works fine for the moment. That might change if one of the turks moves into the flat at the back of the other neighbours'' place when they come back from Turkey. That flat has a metal wall on my side of the flat, but I should be able to put the wifi extender on the top of the brick wall between the flat and the house. They are diagonally across the small park between our houses, basically the park is just a couple of house blocks which don't have houses on them and provide a walkway for the high school at the end across the street on the neighbour's end.

It remains to be seen if the flat will be available any time soon. The previous tenant was kicked out for being a druggy and his brother moved in and has been months behind on the rent at times. Not clear where he works, may well be at the biggest chicken producing operation in the southern hemisphere from the fact that the car goes thru the park quite regularly at 5am or so.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Paul B. Andersen wrote

Yeah, but only because the wifi extender isn't running.

My wifi extender is on the same frequency and that's no big deal because she only uses it for net radio and her grandson for a bit of minor browsing when he's there so the half thruput is of no consequence at all.

I can set it up the other way and can run a CAT5 cable to it too but haven't bothered because I'd rather not have the small lightning strike risk.

Yeah, that's true in my case too since WiFi Analyser can see them both.

Yeah, I presume I will be able to once she returns and plugs it in again. I haven't bothered to power it from my place just for a test.

I haven't bothered to check it, its obvious which is which from the very different signal strength.

I can't because I can't get into the setting to turn that on.

There is a restart in the WiFi SNR menu, presumably for that reason.

Bit crude but good enough.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Paul B. Andersen wrote

Just after you asked, and noticed that one of the neighbour's grandkids appears to have just showed up since another wifi with a name of has just showed up, so likely he will be asking me why the wifi extender isn't working any time soon.

Yeah, rather more of that sort of detail than WiFi Analyser, a keeper.

I don't get any asterisks on mine, just on the text display and just one on there. Maybe you have two because of the two routers.

Looks like it.

Yeah, I do. Thanks for that.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Over time, I've had cable, and DSL, and WISP, and in the end, they all work. :)

Anyway, since you don't use InSSIDer, here's a screen shot of Fritz!App WLAN freeware that I just tested for you as a 1-to-1 replacement for inSSIDer, especially when working with multiple access points with the same SSID.

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Notice that the three signals shown are

  1. My main router (asterisks indicate the connection)
  2. My WiFi extender (which is just another router)
  3. A bounce of the incoming WISP signal

I didn't test it by walking around, but it seems pretty robust, so I'd assume those two asterisks would switch to the middle signal when the phone switches from one router to the other.

The first two signals have the same SSID, but different frequencies. In your case, the SSID is the same, and the frequency is the same, so you'll have two overlapping parabolas of different colors, one of which (the taller one generally) will have the two asterisks.

Let me know what you think of the app (as it has more stuff than this); but I think it replaces inSSIDer as far as I can tell from a quick look here today.

NOTE: I get to re-install inSSIDer as many times as I want because I have the freeware App Backup & Restore installed.

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It's really nice because it saves all your APK files, so you can save them off the phone, and re-install them whenever you want at your leisure without having to worry that they'll get overwritten (it increments them if the app is updated, I think).

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Correction.

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It seems that "Fritz!App WLAN" does what inSSIDer did, which is show all the SSIDs as separate signals (even when the SSID is the same) and then it puts an asterisk (actually two asterisks, for some odd reason) on the one AP parabola that you're currently connected to.

Here's a screenshot taken just now from kind of far away (I don't want to walk about the house as the alarm system is on and it wakes the kids to unset it and reset it).

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

Jeff Liebermann knows more about this than anyone, but, I generally call your setup a "repeater" while I call my setup an "extender".

The way I understand it, my "wired" extender gets me the same signal speeds (give or take) as the original router, while your "wireless" repeater halves the speed.

Of course, it's a *lot easier* to set up the repeater because you don't have to run wires (except for power).

I have no idea about the lightning risk though, but I have antennas all over the place, so I guess I should be crossing my fingers.

Reply to
Paul B. Andersen

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